Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,017
# 11
11-11-2012, 10:40 AM
Don't do PvP - see little point.

Am only ever able to PuG them, which means you end up in a PuG Vs Premade match. And there is NOTHING in the game more pointless than a PuG vs Premade PvP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robdmc View Post
Remember, this place [Captain's Table] is so desolate that upon entering the Aenigma Nebula you will be prompted with a warp out box because the game thinks you flew there by mistake.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 12
11-11-2012, 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fakehilbert View Post
Why do you think the fighters are not allowed to bring guns to a boxing match? A set of rules that makes the competition fair increases the fun of the fight.

Cryptic doesn't understand how balance in this game works, but that doesn't mean that we have to intentionally make the game worse by using all the stupid consoles.
What we wish for is all good and dandy, but there is a realism out there that people will do anythign to get an advantage.

OFFCOURSE i want fairness and a fun game, but when you have Cryptic not doign something concret, then what can we do?
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 363
# 13
11-11-2012, 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fakehilbert View Post
Why do you think the fighters are not allowed to bring guns to a boxing match? A set of rules that makes the competition fair increases the fun of the fight.

Cryptic doesn't understand how balance in this game works, but that doesn't mean that we have to intentionally make the game worse by using all the stupid consoles.
True enough. But in a boxing match they would not make me face an enemy like Klitschko. Because that would be very boring to watch and I might not even survive his punch.

We have no matchmaking in this game. There is premade vs pug, there is veterans vs noobs and there are 5 cruisers without dmg in a team. Yes the most interesting and the most exciting matches are when both teams are equals. And I would like more of these matches.
But consoles are only one of many things that might create an imbalance. Actually they could even make things more interesting (in theory) by giving the weaker team a fighting chance. Also ships can be an equal if not greater advantage than consoles yet people all seem to fly what they want.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,094
# 14
11-11-2012, 12:24 PM
sub nukes
tbr's
syphon drones
and danoobs are just boring
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh....php?t=1313421
The Somraw, K'tinga, D'Kyr, D7, Kumari, Xindi carrier, Xindi escort, and the T'Varo are all older than the Constitution Refit and yet they are tier 5. The Constellation is made up primarily of Connie refit parts and it is tier 5, there is no logical reason whatsoever for the no tier 5/6 connie rule.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 15
11-11-2012, 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
What we wish for is all good and dandy, but there is a realism out there that people will do anythign to get an advantage.

OFFCOURSE i want fairness and a fun game, but when you have Cryptic not doign something concret, then what can we do?
Incorrect. This is a generalization and you know it.

There are some, like TRH that will call it a handicap to go up against an opponent using P2W. In fact, this example was taken from YOUR fleet. Long before Yoda became a target caller in TRH, long before Delta, Draco, Hank, Chorkswald, or any of the current TRH roster. I took this example and began a long journey. This journey is now complete, and this fleet now employs a deterrence factor when it comes to Sub Nuke Doffs and a Handicap attitude towards those that use P2W.

Setting example sets the bar for competition. When you ask "what can we do?" it seems almost as though you were never around for the days when TSI refused and influenced this community not to use P2W.

I'm glad TRH doesn't share your attitude. I stand by what Hilbert said, don't give boxers guns before they enter the ring.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 16
11-11-2012, 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
... Snip ...
When you ask "what can we do?" it seems almost as though you were never around for the days when TSI refused and influenced this community not to use P2W.
...
I've got nothing against TSI and they have done good for PvP generally speaking. Still, they had members who would not only use P2W, they'd also take advantage of known exploits and bugs from time to time in the queues.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,442
# 17
11-11-2012, 03:57 PM
Spawn Camping in PvP literally makes it spawn and die and seems to be a common "tactic" particularly in ground PvP. It just sucks the fun out of it, no matter which side you're on.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,603
# 18
11-11-2012, 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tc10b View Post
Spawn Camping in PvP literally makes it spawn and die and seems to be a common "tactic" particularly in ground PvP. It just sucks the fun out of it, no matter which side you're on.
An example of something that makes perfect sense in meaningful PvP and something that's just tedious in casual PvP.

One can look at it as there are folks that have played meaningful PvP in the past and just do not know how to adjust to the casual environment...

...or one can look at it as the bullying hierarchy thing - something where people feel kind of small in their real lives and they're going to grab for anything that might give them a chance of not feeling so small. Often this means chest bumping after shooting fish in a barrel...

...or heck, one could look at it as a simple quest for tears - that sustenance some thrive upon and get the most joy out of: the more they can do things to make folks complain, the warmer and fuzzier they feel on the inside.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,924
# 19
11-11-2012, 05:55 PM
Is it fun to be made helpless then destroyed ?

Is it fun to be destroyed on spawning ?

Is it fun to not have a counter available to
Something costing you the game ?

It is all real simple anything that causes the opposing
Player to not have fun or to cry out that's not
Fair or balanced is probably unfair and unbalanced

The main lesson is that if both sides arnt having fun
Only one side will play. That's fact

Our pvp ques prove this day I'n and day out

If it isn't fun they won't play

To be fun it must be balanced
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,466
# 20
11-11-2012, 08:18 PM
Lots of interesting points of view so far.

So I see one of the most common viewpoints is the fact that PvP in MMO queues is inherently unfair to some degree. We certainly can't do anything about that one.

I do realize that it is impossible to have a hard blacklist that many agree on, as some of you mentioned earlier. That's why I wanted to discuss this and just see what everyone thought in general, not to find out who's right.

Another one I see is the matter of degree. Some abilities, if used by one, are fine, but if the entire team uses them, it becomes tedious and unworkable for their opponents.

And finally, there are some abilities/tactics which most recognise as broken, which leave a bad taste in the mouth if used.

Oh, yes, and try not to name names for anyone who you believe is purposefully using broken stuff. Those tend to turn into thread-derailing/thread-closing arguments
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