Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,065
# 21
11-11-2012, 03:28 AM
Having dabbled in the queues a few times and run a few premades in a PvE build cruiser I can hold my own against multiple decent F2P builds simultaneously but the moment a lockbox ship even looks at me I'm done...

Having done this and established my playing skill (I know a few tricks to get the upper hand on some ships) I find there are PvPers out there far better than me but at the end of the day I agree that the game is unbalanced and the P2W stuff way out of sync with game balance.

I think they should balance PvP and having done that build PvE on top of that balance. That would make the game in general far more fun to play.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 22
11-11-2012, 04:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jellico1 View Post
----------------
I agree completely

My fleet is about 98% pve so I usually have to pug
My pvp runs perhaps one will come with me

But not the same one the next time.
Like Aquitaine said, there's an OrganizedPvP channel where we're always happy to give you a working team. Even just having one partner increases your odds of enjoying the night massively, it's tough to stress just how big a difference teamwork makes.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,229
# 23
11-11-2012, 07:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
So P2W B'rel are actually counterable with other P2W stuff (that you don't have to spend a siongle cent to buy)? What's the deal with that?
Which season was the B'rel at again?

How many consoles, I forget.

Hardly qualifies as P2W when you place it in the same category as the d'Kora, Galor, Jem'Hadar, Temporal Destroyers & Temporal Science vessels, The Recluse and the Orb.

The B'rel just happens to be in the c-store because it was always the intent for KDF to buy the unlock like all other c-store ships. Lockbox ships are P2W. Though, at this point I am on the fence about the Vesta. It's the first "Lockbox" class ship open to the wallet.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 24
11-11-2012, 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
So...I decided to play some queues today, mostly Arenas.

Now, while I've been enjoying my B'rel quite a bit in Ker'rat, it's fun, a part of my mind still said to me that 'these PvPers are just overreacting about overpowered stuff, P2W, and so on'.

I was wrong, very, VERY wrong.

I won't tell my tales, but I'll just say my eyes were opened, and ya'll are quite right. I saw much of the very things you all complain about here, and for good reason.

So I learned the hard way, but at least I learned.

This PvEer turned part-time PvPer better understands why you all think some things are overpowered, and agree considerably now.
Nice statement, but i think it also deserves to be said that most of who you are addressing are just as guilty by complaining about OP stuff, and as for using them at the same time.

I'm very sceptical of whether PvP in this game can ever be repaired, if i look at my own list of things which should change, the scale of those changes are so huge that it's almost unbelievable to make PvP wealthy again.


- First everything should get a balance pass, which will probably take at least 6 months.

- They need to decide to finally make all ships equal which is most likely going to interfere with their cash grabbing algorithms. Obviously not going to nerf any lockbox ships, so buff all the non lockbox ships. I doubt it will ever happen.

- We need retrait tokens, never going to happen. People don't bother with releveling for some traits which are (in my opinion) quite important. Even if it does happen, it will be paid.

- We need some way to get free respec tokens, without it, and they do constantly *** up the skilltree, you will again need to pay your way to optimization.

- Ship p2w consoles need more restriction, only 1 pay to win per ship is acceptable. Not ever going to happen.

- We need new PvP maps to keep PvP from becoming boring. Seeing how much maps they've come up with in the last 2 years... you might see a new PvP map every 2 years? (Thats positive thinking :p)

- We need a simple Shield distribution Toggle button on the UI instead of everyone mandatory to mess with binds. As it is now, the whole game is way too complicated to even be viable at PvP. Some PvP'ers already stopped playing long before they figure out you can actually bind your Shield distribution on your spacebar or WASD buttons. Most likely never going to happen, these kind of 'complicated' things will stop 95% of the PvP'ers at some point because they are all being instapopped and rely on RSP.

- PvP needs reward system, we need PvP gear and a PvP vendor where you need to PvP in order to get fancy new stuff, including fleet marks etc. Never going to happen.

- Cap'n lulz need a total revamp, too much work!

- Autofire and stuff is way to much trouble for the beginner PvP to comprehend on how to even set it up, and after 6 months of PvP they finally hear from someone else that its much better to use since we don't live in Season 2 anymore where macro'ing your weaponcycles could optimize your weapon firing. Suddenly they do much more damage. Takes months for someone to realize it, before that happens another 95% already couldn't be bothered with PvP anymore.

- The only PvP weapon gear that has never been made available in game is on the exchange rather then a official vendor i.e. Memory alpha always crapped you up with [dmg] crap etc, where prices for the best weapons are averaging at 100M ec, thats 10 times a normal free to play guy can possibly posses. and they tend to keep it that way, you realise that the only way to really gain such amounts of money these days is by gambling lockboxes and sell your fancy ships? Thats what they want you to do. They purposely never give any widely available PvP gear (mk XII [acc]x3) weapons because they want you to obtain money with selling lockbox ships in order to achieve your goal, if you didn't realise this yet.

- Powerlevels are set up like a total newbie would, they should change the 4th profile and rename it to auxiliary rather then 'balanced' All the newbies all need to figure out how the powerlevel thingies work and need to save them afterwards, I'm always so annoyed whenever i obtain a new ship i have to reset my 'balanced' 4 profile back to full aux.

- Doffs and MK XII purp consoles are also uber expensive on the xchange, and the only way to obtain them is the same story as for the PvP weapon gear story above, or do massive grind, literally EVERYthing in this game that is related to being good at PvP is simply some form of pay to win. There is absolutely no tradeoff involved like you play more and you obtain it with playtime, play less and you are a rich man you can pay with real money, they stated it like that in the new f2p system and yeh im sure it will go nicely hand in hand with PVE.

Long story short, first of all this game's PvP need so much time investement from the player to even get close to becoming a good player is so very huge, 95% of the players simply couldn't be bothered. If you only find out certain things like distribute shields which is vital for your survival in PvP only after 6 months of playing PvP itself, most people wouldn't even be bothered playing PVP that long they've already gotten battered dozens of times and gave up. It probably already has been mentioned before that the learning curve is just huge in this game for PvP, I'm pretty sure this will only get more and more extended to a final point where there are only 10% of the current PvP'ers are left)

In order for this game's PvP to improve, not just PvP would need a revamp but the whole game would have to undergo drastic changes which is simply inevitable, even if they decide to somehow 'seperate' PvE from PvP (Which I highly doubt will ever happen, they will most likely tell us that the 'engine' simply cannot handle it like they say about all kind of things.)

The saddest part about all this is how the community itself is even making the whole experience even worse, they all complain p2w OP this ability OP that. FaW, Spread, Trico Mines, Danube spam, and now TBR as I've heard.

90% of the PvP community simply abuses those potentially overpowered aspects all the time and cry about it the other day, its just sad. Even if in my opinion it's the players fault here which makes PvP an even less enjoyable factor of this game, part is ofcourse to blame by crappy developers which have absolutely no idea what they are doing. It was no bug, this is no bug. TBR buffed this much, is that a bug? I havent tested it but i heard it can spike people with 20+K per pulse. However, I still think that this PvP community and their players is the icing on the cake on ruining the already horrible PvP in this game, which is really sad.

Funny thing is, most of this thinking could most likely be affiliated with a crappy player simply being crappy :p

Last edited by marctraiderz; 11-11-2012 at 02:51 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,738
# 25
11-11-2012, 07:31 PM
That's why the bootcamp needs to succeed. If people get over the initial hurdle of learning the basics like keybinds, distribution, boff configurations, then they will likely stick with the game. Especially when they realize that they're no longer as squishy as they thought they were.

It's why I keep pointing PvEers to my siglink. It consolidates most of the useful information in this game.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,742
# 26
11-11-2012, 07:50 PM
I will try the pvp channel next time I take my
Ship out for a spin appreciate the advice.

Balancing pvp could be very simple I'n this game
Using the point system from sfc3

Each ship is given a combat point value

A bug may get a 20 combat value

A excelsior may get a 7

The devs could look at each ship I'n depth
To assign a value to it

I'n the que the players may have a 40 point match posted
So only 40 points of ships per side can play

It could be 3 on 5

That's the only way I see STO being balanced because
Combat abilities differ so greatly between ships, doffs,skills, Boffs
And gear
Jellico....Engineer.....Stargazer KDF Tac
Saphire.. Science.....Ko'el Rom Kdf Tac
Leva........Tactical.....Mailu KDF Sci

JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 27
11-12-2012, 05:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marctraiderz View Post
The saddest part about all this is how the community itself is even making the whole experience even worse, they all complain p2w OP this ability OP that. FaW, Spread, Trico Mines, Danube spam, and now TBR as I've heard.

90% of the PvP community simply abuses those potentially overpowered aspects all the time and cry about it the other day, its just sad. Even if in my opinion it's the players fault here which makes PvP an even less enjoyable factor of this game, part is ofcourse to blame by crappy developers which have absolutely no idea what they are doing. It was no bug, this is no bug. TBR buffed this much, is that a bug? I havent tested it but i heard it can spike people with 20+K per pulse. However, I still think that this PvP community and their players is the icing on the cake on ruining the already horrible PvP in this game, which is really sad.
+1 times a million, I'll never name names but it's mind-boggling how the same people who'll complain about the queues and about PvP being dead or about this or that FotM mechanic are the exact same people who abuse them the worst. I don't know if they think they're being "ironic" or funny or not, and personally I can just live with it if that's how they want to roll, but it doesn't help the impression of the game that any new player gets when they decide to try out this PvP thing.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 28
11-12-2012, 05:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
That's why the bootcamp needs to succeed. If people get over the initial hurdle of learning the basics like keybinds, distribution, boff configurations, then they will likely stick with the game. Especially when they realize that they're no longer as squishy as they thought they were.

It's why I keep pointing PvEers to my siglink. It consolidates most of the useful information in this game.
as idealistic as the bootcamp is, the game simply is fail when it comes to pvp.

its like trying to treat the coughing you get from smoking rather then quitting smoking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 29
11-12-2012, 07:45 AM
One fast and easy fix to pvp in regards to p2w, is to limit the console usage. Either restrict 1 p2w console pr ship or simply and easy limit the console to the native ship it came from. After all the players should buy the ship for its purpose, and not just for the consoles sake.

But who am i fooling -.-
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,065
# 30
11-12-2012, 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
simply and easy limit the console to the native ship it came from. After all the players should buy the ship for its purpose, and not just for the consoles sake.
If you open that up to variants of the ship and you have a deal. For example the temporal set is what gives the Wells it's power so allow it to work on any temporal ship. Or the Excelsior console (Now only sold on the CMDR version) leave that available to all Excelsior variants.

Do this and I will support your idea all the way
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