Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 265
This is probably old news, but it has been something I've noticed.

Earlier today I took a look at the ol' dil exchange. Funny enough, while people have been hoarding dil for the upcoming s7 requirements, the price of zen has gone up, ever so slightly. It has generally been sitting at 158 for best price, but earlier it was 159, as seen here. It would seem that 159 would be the lowest price, all lower prices being bought up already. If one were to buy zen at any of those prices, one would get their zen almost immediately - which makes sense, as there's a big pool there. And if one were to pick another price, lower than the lowest shown, it would take some time until it traded, when someone put up their zen for your lower offer. This would make sense.

Except, that doesn't seem to be the case. Well, the waiting is true. But it looks like, if one were to sell their zen for dil, the best prices would be a bit different. As we can see, there's lots of zen being sold at lower amounts than the Buy Zen tab shows.

So, seeing as how there looked to be a bit of zen being offered for 154 dil a pop, a tad better than the 159 shown in the Buy Zen screen, I decided to take one lucky person up on that. While one would expect to immediately receive from such a bounteous pot of zen, I didn't. Not only that, but hours later I am still waiting for my 1Z.

I have heard some folks on this very forum suggest that Cryptic is artificially keeping a high price in dil for zen, so folks will buy zen for the purpose of obtaining dil. Now, I certainly don't believe in such conspiracy theories, but there is a discrepancy here. What is the reason for this? Is it just a bug?
Ensign
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 15
# 2
11-12-2012, 10:10 PM
If it's being artificially manipulated, then there might be grounds for a lawsuit as real money is involved.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 917
# 3
11-12-2012, 10:13 PM
I heard its the way the market is manipulated to sustain it, otherwise it will crash. There does seem to be a discrepancy, I wish their was a DEV that would comment on this.

What you are showing in your links is just that, market manipulation - It is a way to safeguard the exchange.

Think Wallstreet.

Last edited by stark2k; 11-12-2012 at 10:15 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 916
# 4
11-12-2012, 10:15 PM
No. If it *was* artificially manipulated then it should have stayed at the 300+ mark back in March/April.

What I believe you are seeing are the Vesta-class ship fans exchanging their Dilithium to Zen in order to have their Zen ready for when the ship comes out with S7. It happen with the Atrox, Armitage, and the Regent (less so the Regent for some strange reason).

Give it time and it should flux back.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,067
# 5
11-12-2012, 10:23 PM
the sad thing is i really wouldn't put it passed them, especially not with the decisions that have been happening since F2P. Too many shady dealings and frankly it really wrecks a game when they start making it more about buying than having fun. Even the folks at Champions are getting mad at it, which makes me worry for Neverwinter.
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 265
# 6
11-12-2012, 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by altechachan View Post

What I believe you are seeing are the Vesta-class ship fans exchanging their Dilithium to Zen in order to have their Zen ready for when the ship comes out with S7. It happen with the Atrox, Armitage, and the Regent (less so the Regent for some strange reason).
That doesn't explain the discrepancy between the Buy and Sell Zen tabs, and why the 1 zen isn't bought when there is clearly zen to buy at that price.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,522
# 7
11-12-2012, 10:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theroyalfamily View Post
That doesn't explain the discrepancy between the Buy and Sell Zen tabs, and why the 1 zen isn't bought when there is clearly zen to buy at that price.
I've seen similar things happen, I came to the conclusion that what happened is a reflection of the fact that the market is constantly in flux. People are constantly buying and selling zen. The actual minimum price probably changes once a second, if not more often. The displayed prices are usually a few seconds old (at least) and not updated that often.
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,292
# 8
11-12-2012, 10:54 PM
There is one major problem: You are trying to BUY 154 dilthum for 1 Zen

What is displayed there is that the are 40145 Zen ALSO wanting to BUY(Sell displayed means Zen) at 154 per dilthium - but there is no-one to BUY the Zen from you at 154 dilth

on the BUY side tab is shows you the price per Dilthium people are willing to sell - which would probably be 159 - per Zen


So you order would only be filled after all the Zen is bought at 158/157/156/155 and most of 154

You are looking at things backward

(might need to edit tomorrow its 2 am and I can't think straight)

Last edited by born2bwild1; 11-12-2012 at 11:06 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 265
# 9
11-12-2012, 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild1 View Post
There is one major problem: You are trying to BUY 1 Zen for 154 dilthum

What is displayed there is that the are 40145 Zen ALSO wanting to BUY at 154 per dilthium

on the BUY side tab is shows you the price per Zen people are willing to buy - which would probably be 159


So you order would only be filled after all the Zen is bought at 158/157/156/155 and most of 154

You are looking at things backward
Interesting idea. That might very well be how it works.

However, it goes against both how the regular Exchange works, which would influence how the zen sellers would price their zen. In the Exchange, if you want your thing to sell quick - indeed, often at all - you want to make your price the lowest, so people will want to buy it, because it is at the top of the first page. It would only make sense that the Zen Exchange would work the same way - the stuff that is the lowest price would sell first, since folks want to get the most zen for their dil.

If it works like you say, any schmo could artificially drive up the mean price of zen - you just put a high-ball offer up, then it knocks the lowest price off the screen, making the next lowest price the lowest, etc. It screws all the people selling low, not just all the folks that were selling for the former lowest price, but also everyone who thinks the Dil exchange works like the EC Exchange and are low-balling the price in hopes of selling their zen faster.

I guess that could be tested...

EDIT: Doesn't seem to work that way. Just tried putting a high price on some zen, didn't bump the prices shown for buying zen for me or someone else.

Last edited by theroyalfamily; 11-12-2012 at 11:16 PM.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
# 10
11-12-2012, 11:09 PM
This confusion about how the Dilithium Exchange does come up in the forums from time to time. I can assure you that there is nothing funny going on here and we are certainly not manipulating prices.

The best offer to sell is the lowest prices, namely 159 dilithium per zen. The best offer to buy is the highest price, namely 158 dilithium per zen. Since the lowest offer to sell is 159, no sale will take place until there is a matching buy order at a price of 159 or higher. None of the buy offers in the system are that high, so they will not be matched by the exchange.

Think about it from the point of view of the person offering to sell zen for 159. You would not expect to offer your zen for 159 but instead only get 154. Your zen will not sell until someone offers 159 for it.

On the buy side things are flipped. If you are the guy offering to buy zen for 158, you would not want to be charged 163 for that zen. Your buy order will not be completed until someone enters an order at 158 or less.

The important thing to keep in mind is that the best buy order is the lowest price, and the best sell order is the highest price.
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