Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,292
# 11
11-12-2012, 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theroyalfamily View Post
Interesting idea. That might very well be how it works.

However, it goes against both how the regular Exchange works, which would influence how the zen sellers would price their zen. In the Exchange, if you want your thing to sell quick - indeed, often at all - you want to make your price the lowest, so people will want to buy it, because it is at the top of the first page. It would only make sense that the Zen Exchange would work the same way - the stuff that is the lowest price would sell first, since folks want to get the most zen for their dil.

If it works like you say, any schmo could artificially drive up the mean price of zen - you just put a high-ball offer up, then it knocks the lowest price off the screen, making the next lowest price the lowest, etc. It screws all the people selling low, not just all the folks that were selling for the former lowest price, but also everyone who thinks the Dil exchange works like the EC Exchange and are low-balling the price in hopes of selling their zen faster.

I guess that could be tested...
See my edited post - its too hard to think straight right now but it is right - not saying that Cyptic is not supporting the price - but you are looking at this backward - confusing dilth with Zen in your reasoning.
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 264
# 12
11-12-2012, 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rehpic View Post
This confusion about how the Dilithium Exchange does come up in the forums from time to time. I can assure you that there is nothing funny going on here and we are certainly not manipulating prices.

The best offer to sell is the lowest prices, namely 159 dilithium per zen. The best offer to buy is the highest price, namely 158 dilithium per zen. Since the lowest offer to sell is 159, no sale will take place until there is a matching buy order at a price of 159 or higher. None of the buy offers in the system are that high, so they will not be matched by the exchange.

Think about it from the point of view of the person offering to sell zen for 159. You would not expect to offer your zen for 159 but instead only get 154. Your zen will not sell until someone offers 159 for it.

On the buy side things are flipped. If you are the guy offering to buy zen for 158, you would not want to be charged 163 for that zen. Your buy order will not be completed until someone enters an order at 158 or less.

The important thing to keep in mind is that the best buy order is the lowest price, and the best sell order is the highest price.
That makes sense.

But what of the people that are willing to sell zen at 154 (or whatever price), and someone that wants to buy at that price. The system does not seem to want to let that happen, for whatever reason. What the system looks like to me is that there is a pool of zen that folks are selling for x price, y price, z price, etc, which pool is represented on the screen. Is that not what is actually being shown?
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
# 13
11-12-2012, 11:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theroyalfamily View Post
That makes sense.

But what of the people that are willing to sell zen at 154 (or whatever price), and someone that wants to buy at that price. The system does not seem to want to let that happen, for whatever reason. What the system looks like to me is that there is a pool of zen that folks are selling for x price, y price, z price, etc, which pool is represented on the screen. Is that not what is actually being shown?
A sell offer will always be matched with the "best" buy offer, which is the buy offer at the highest price. If there are buy offers at 158, a better price than 154, then the 158 buy offers will be the ones that are matched.
--
Lead Programmer: Neverwinter
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 264
# 14
11-12-2012, 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rehpic View Post
A sell offer will always be matched with the "best" buy offer, which is the buy offer at the highest price. If there are buy offers at 158, a better price than 154, then the 158 buy offers will be the ones that are matched.
And, even if I offer to buy a zen at 166, I will still only pay 159.

Since that is the case, why show the other prices at all?

Why is it not set up like the EC exchange (which is what it looks like, albeit simplified), where folks can create their own offers, and thus have a true market?

Also, why the one dil difference? If I buy a zen, and then sell that same zen, I lose 1 dil. Why are they not the same?

I guess I'm asking for the formulas used to determine all this stuff :p

Last edited by theroyalfamily; 11-12-2012 at 11:45 PM.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
# 15
11-12-2012, 11:57 PM
The Dilithium Exchange works roughly how commodity and currency exchanges work in the real world. The Exchange where players trade EC for items is not a commodity exchange, it is more like classified ads where players offer an item for a specific price and other players can buy only at that price.

The system will not let you cheat yourself by paying more or receiving less. It will always give you the best deal. The system was specifically not designed to apply players to pay more than they need to, because that can lead to support problems and other types of manipulation of the system.
--
Lead Programmer: Neverwinter
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
# 16
11-13-2012, 12:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theroyalfamily View Post
Also, why the one dil difference? If I buy a zen, and then sell that same zen, I lose 1 dil. Why are they not the same?
Sorry, but this doesn't make any sense to me. If you offer to sell 1 zen at price X, you will never get less than X dilithium. The only way you will lose one Dilithium is if you offer to sell your zen for one dilithium less than you bought it for. Of course you might have to wait until someone enters a buy offer at the same price as your sell offer.
--
Lead Programmer: Neverwinter
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,069
# 17
11-13-2012, 12:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stark2k View Post
I heard its the way the market is manipulated to sustain it, otherwise it will crash.
Crash because?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 908
# 18
11-13-2012, 02:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rehpic View Post
This confusion about how the Dilithium Exchange does come up in the forums from time to time. I can assure you that there is nothing funny going on here and we are certainly not manipulating prices.

The best offer to sell is the lowest prices, namely 159 dilithium per zen. The best offer to buy is the highest price, namely 158 dilithium per zen. Since the lowest offer to sell is 159, no sale will take place until there is a matching buy order at a price of 159 or higher. None of the buy offers in the system are that high, so they will not be matched by the exchange.

Think about it from the point of view of the person offering to sell zen for 159. You would not expect to offer your zen for 159 but instead only get 154. Your zen will not sell until someone offers 159 for it.

On the buy side things are flipped. If you are the guy offering to buy zen for 158, you would not want to be charged 163 for that zen. Your buy order will not be completed until someone enters an order at 158 or less.

The important thing to keep in mind is that the best buy order is the lowest price, and the best sell order is the highest price.
Thanks for the clarification, it makes perfect sense now.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 298
# 19
11-13-2012, 06:54 AM
Just take one look at S7 and what they are doing to keep milking us for money and then tell me you dont think they might have some hand in the dilith. exhcange.



Yeah, that's right.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,425
# 20
11-13-2012, 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adon333 View Post
Just take one look at S7 and what they are doing to keep milking us for money and then tell me you dont think they might have some hand in the dilith. exhcange.
They're increasing the net amount of dilithium you can get per character in a couple of hours and clearly marking where to get it in S7.

The only way you lose out is if you used alts to acquire dilithium.

But I think the net goal if actually people refining more dilithium per day and that the shifts are actually to try to get people to do Fleet Actions over other types of content rather than actually dilithium starving people.

The long-run direction the dilithium economy hinges in S7 depends on three things (everything else is fairly short-run):

1) Do heavy economic participants lose out by not having frontloaded dilithium on lots of alts?

2) Do players bother with Foundry with a mission length requirement and pursue Fleet Actions? Do they bother with ESTFs?

3) Is having purple DOffs worth paying an upgrinding fee?

The first is an economic referendum on the value of economic changes from a system that makes alts advantagous to one that eliminates most of the economic advantage for alts.

The second and third are a question of whether high quality DOffs, lengthy Foundry missions, ESTFs, and Fleet Actions are "worth it." The net result could be players rejecting all four.
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