Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 698
# 31
11-13-2012, 06:58 PM
Lying to us has worn thin, my wallets now closed until this is addressed.

You limit ways to get Dil, you increase the amount of time it takes to grind.

Stahl your math is wrong, I was able to do 8k easy on each toon in 1-2 hours. That's across 6 characters, mostly through STFs (Converting Salvage, Tech, and EDC). Being a LTS member I could even earn more than cap and not have to log onto a toon for a few days.

The system worked, people that didn't have cash... could grind and trade for Zen. People that had cash and no time could buy dil with Zen. In some cases myself included, I grinded dil for ingame things and purchased Zen when needed for the C-store.

This is a play to drive up the cost of Dilithium in the exchange, it will fail. The economy is STO is optional, it doesn't provide food, water, or shelter. At some point the market will bottom out as the conversion hits a point that isn't worth it to the player.

I hope you adjust the Marks to Dil rates....

I've been a Star Trek Fan since 1987, I was 7 years old when I first saw TNG. From that moment on I was hooked. This game is making me hate Star Trek.

You guys flat out lied to us.... we won't forget that.
I'll stop kicking that horse when the bugs fixed. Until then as a paying consumer, I will voice my opinion.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 19
# 32 Pros and cons...
11-13-2012, 07:00 PM
I have to say, I'm excited about the new content and the stfs are fun thus far, but recently I purchased several character slots with zen on the basis of infrastructural investment for dilithium dailies. About a week later, S7 is announced and I find that the dailies are being killed which made my purchases worthless, so in addition to having wasted dil with no reasonable warning ahead of time, my available ways to generate it in a timely fashion have been cut as well.

My foundry usage is low overall, but there are a couple of accolade missions i enjoy for the loot potential. My primary use of Foundry was for one-clicks, so in my case, your changes will not promote usage of the foundry unless whatever criteria you set forth for missions to qualify for dil are not-at-all time intensive. To get all 3 in under 10 minutes would be workable, but more than that would be discouraging.

I like dil to trade for zen for ships and character enhancements like bank slots, doff slots etc. I could really care less about borg gear, but having to choose what to run based on the currency it provides is ludicrous. I have zero reason to play a single stf that doesnt reward dil, so much of this content is useless to my style of play.

I had considered buying some via credit card but have decided since I already pay monthly, due to these changes specifically designed to "encourage" me to buy zen with RL $, I will no longer purchase Zen, nor will I continue to subscribe monthly, until some compensation is made in game for Dilithium generation.

To spend the required time in stf's and other methods to acquire as much Dil as will be required going forward, is not a pleasure many people have. I don't feel individually slighted here, but feel the player base as a whole has been deal a poor hand, not to mention the hand is now short a couple cards.

Every player is different, no doubt, but a sad trend in failing and failed MMO's seems to be taking place here

Bottom line is: your company set an expectation. You took things away without giving the same or more in return. In response, however small it may be, I will not pay any more real-world currency to play STO or use it to purchase in game currency of any form. The changes may have more of this kind of impact than you thought, but then again, it may have just the desired effect you were looking for.

On that note, great job on the romulan content, new space sector and such, and I'm looking forward to more...regarding the changes to dilithium...well, to say I'm disappointed would be a mild way to express my thoughts on that topic. I have found myself browsing sites to read reviews on other MMO's tonight for the first time since I started STO. ...which is what led me to share my thoughts on the matter.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,071
# 33
11-13-2012, 07:01 PM
If you want to know why my lvl 50 stopped grinding dilithium... what is the point? I don't care about stupid virtual goodies. I care about Star Trek. You team provides stupid virtual goodies and not Star Trek. So, I stopped caring about your stuff and cared far more about the only place in this game that has a soul or a story.

I'm sorry if I didn't meet your MMO expectations. I don't like to mow the lawn every day as a chore. I'd rather feel immersed in the universe of Trek, when your game isn't ruining all levels of that immersion.

Like, what exactly do you want me, as a player to do in this game? You want me to rush back and forth between the same content that I played yesterday? You want me to just rinse and repeat content that uninspired to begin with? It's like you want me to circle an arcade on a daily basis with set tasks to do, which include doing things that suck and are simply not fun to do.

"Now is your time to farm anomalies.... Now is your time to play some slogfest with no story... no is your time to repair a satellite that breaks everyday..." Your dilithium is dumb. Your starbases are a reskinned doff system, and your reputation system is a repeat of that reskin.

I'm sorry. I refuse to waste my time with things that are not fun.

Screw that. None of that is fun. I'll play how I want to play, and I've officially stopped caring about how you want or expect me to play your non-content content. You stopped caring about the "meat" of your game a long time ago.

Last edited by kirksplat; 11-13-2012 at 07:19 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,009
# 34
11-13-2012, 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by alastorforthrigh View Post
"People are not refining Dilithium in the amounts we were expecting, so we must make Dilithium more accessible."

"Lets take them away from the missions most people run then!"

i know im lost for words.

1000 bucks that once they realise that everyone is farming contraband and only loggin in every 5 hrs to get their 2k they are going to nurf that too.

this change has nothing to do with player not hitting dilth cap or wanting players to reach the cap its nothing more than MONEY pay for dil pay for doff packs and open the bloody boxes that what this game is all bout now. WTF is the point in playing stfs anymore.

i swear these guys are going out of their way to get me to stop playing and stop buying zens.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,108
# 35
11-13-2012, 07:02 PM
...y'know what?

I do my damnedest with every update to see things from as many points of view as possible, so I have a firm grasp on why changes are being made. And almost universally, I wind up seeing the logic behind these choices, and I roll with them. I play nice. I do my best to defend the Devs from the boneheaded forum-goers. I state my case in a calm manner when something I disagree with happens. And by God I will continue to do so. Hell, I enjoy literally every other aspect of S7 and think you guys did an amazing job on it.

But so help me, this Dilithium change has me as close to outright nerd-splosion as I can stand.

Totally removing dilithium as a direct reward from STF's is stupid. There is nice way to say it. This is a terrible, terrible idea, and the pittance you offer in exchange with the ability to turn in marks and Processors is simply insufficient. Normally I laugh off people who claim this or that will kill small fleets, but by cutting off Dil income from the sources that matter at the waist, this could very well do it.

Now, this is me we're talking about here. I'm not a hard man to please. I think the Processor redemption is, in concept, a fantastic alternative.

Neural Processors, simply put, need to be converted at at least a 2:1000 ratio, not 10:1000. Even with the slightly extra potential income from the marks conversion, the processor conversion is laughably insufficient.

This situation desperately needs to be reevaluated. You're getting nearly universal negative feedback. People who have generally been content with the changes are railing against this. You need to change this.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 36
11-13-2012, 07:04 PM
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
Better design, bad rollout of better design. You shouldn't re-design something because the old design is bad. You should work with your game more the way your community plays it, not continually yanking it back to the way you want it played.

They don't care. They outright lied to us.

First Elite STFs were to be 480 dil.

Then, after massive rage against it, it was to be 960.

And then, total silence as they removed it completely with no intent of ever adding it back.

They want to incentivize their old, terrible content like Sb24? Completely lopsided in it's favoring of Tac/Escort above all? SB24 is worse in this regard than STFs are.

And now, you get 2 purples for 1st place!

Or is it that their metrics told them that the STFs were too hard for the mentally inept so they decided to take those mission rewards away from everyone?

SB24, The Big Dig, Klingon Scout Force - this is the content you want people playing? Really?

My advice to anyone upset with the changes is that you literally, do not log into the game at all to play it.

They can lie to us and say their metrics see more players playing than we were 2 weeks ago, but they'd be total fools to lie and say the same thing to themselves.

Last edited by ussultimatum; 11-13-2012 at 07:06 PM.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 550
# 37
11-13-2012, 07:04 PM
Originally Posted by thepantsparty View Post
When I queued for elite STFs, I did them with people from my fleet and would cooperate with them so we could earn the best rewards.

When I queue for SB24 now, I queue solo and only focus on trying to place first so I can get the bonus loot instead of helping anyone else.

Elite STFs were a much more enjoyable way to earn dilithium.
Quoted for truth.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,045
# 38
11-13-2012, 07:05 PM
I'm usually very reluctant to ccept the idea that Cryptic is lying to us. I think things often change internally at the drop of a hat, out of people's control.

But this time, I do think Cryptic lied. And I think they did it intentionally because they knew people wouldn't agree with the new design.

You know what? You should really be letting your players dictate design if you catch yourself doing things you know will annoy them.

Your designers are really out of control if they think they should have more say than the players when it comes to design of a social game and are withholding or falsifying information rather than facing honest player feedback on a test server.

What I want is honesty, openness, and a chance at influencing things. Please. Explain why you deserve one red cent from gaming customers who you don't provide those things to.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 945
# 39
11-13-2012, 07:11 PM
Originally Posted by jexsamx View Post
Explain this train of thought to me.

"People are refining a lot less Dillthium than we expected... Let's remove it directly from STF's, make it take a lot longer to get via Foundry, and remove the extra 1440 from B'tran. Now they'll refine a lot more!"
Agreed. What they SHOULD have done is INCREASE the Dilithium reward from STFs. I was doing a lot of STFs and couldn't refine all my Dilithium due to the cap limit.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,292
He swore up and down pre-launch - that Normal would still give 480 and 960 for elite

which was adjusted up from 240 and 480 dilthium orginally

Wow now Dilthium has been removed all together

There is also a YouTube video explaining to Players what you get:

(it was a vid posted many times in the past and I copyed the link - love it!!)

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