Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,113
# 41
11-14-2012, 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
People don't complain unless they hit a threshold of care... people don't complain about things they don't care about... THAT WAS my point.
That threshold is different. Was my point. People are more entitled, more impatient now than they were. They're very spoiled. It's always been about wanting more for less, but that amount of more and that amount of less have changed. The sheer number of options they have - has empowered them - it's dropped their level of tolerance - thus, leaving them more entitled and more impatient.

Throw in the pseudo anonymity of the internet - and - they've also become more emboldened. Much like some folks will joke about "internet tough guy" discussions on forums - the same happens with reviews and complaints. People will write crap on the internet that they would never say in person - Hell, stuff they wouldn't even put on an anonymous comment card.

They're quicker to complain, more negative, etc, etc, etc.

They're spoiled. The ability to have near instant gratification in so many arenas of their lives has led to the expectation of that near instant gratification always being met. When it's not...

...and when it is met, it's usually followed by complaints of boredom.

Each year, it's more and more like dealing with toddlers crying that they want ice cream for dinner rather than rational adults...

Because people have changed.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 42
11-14-2012, 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz4 View Post
The length of time in STO in this case translates to lenght of time fighting the PVP cause, not skill and ability. Please dont twist this remark like a true legal scretary.
You want to start trolling again or something? I am not a legal secretary.

You guys don't get it. They will decide what to do with their game. You guys thought you could control the outcome of this game by walking all over people such as myself and other new people. Well how about you use that to rally the opinion of something along the lines of strength in numbers? You think 10 Pandas trolling a bunch of independent folks on this forum is going to catch the positive attention of a Dev?

Naz, you really ought to give your head a shake. We all want to same thing and you make pathetic remarks such as that.

Last edited by paxottoman; 11-14-2012 at 04:16 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 230
# 43
11-14-2012, 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Part of the reason PvPers have it out so badly for Cryptic is that you keep stringing us along but you never deliver, and after three years it's very easy to see through.
I think the answer to this problem is not more secrecy from cyptic, but rather better communication. One of the main problems I see is that cryptic never tells us when plans don't work out. For all we know, tournament queues (and these open pvp freighter raids) are still in development or testing. Nobody ever came and told us "Sorry, we ran into problems with xyz and therefore we won't be able to give you this feature in the foreseeable future.".

And especially regarding tournament queues this is disappointing. I can easily imagine that automating tournaments for a team-based game is difficult. And if we had received a line telling us about unforeseen difficulties that lead to a cancellation of this concept, it would have been okay. But instead of this we got infractions when people were (in a very civil way) celebrating the one year anniversary of that July 2010 thread.


Here is an idea: Restore that thread back to its rightful place as a sticky in the pvp forum and thus show your respect for one of the cornerpieces of pvp subforum culture.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 44
11-14-2012, 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
You want to start trolling again or something? I am not a legal secretary.

You guys don't get it. They will decide what to do with their game. You guys thought you could control the outcome of this game by walking all over people such as myself and other new people. Well how about you use that to rally the opinion of something along the lines of strength in numbers? You think 10 Pandas trolling a bunch of independent folks on this forum is going to catch the positive attention of a Dev?

Naz, you really ought to give your head a shake. We all want to same thing and you make pathetic remarks such as that.
You seem to have the desire to become the new STO PvP savior, as so many before you, its just not going to work im afraid
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,143
# 45
11-14-2012, 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
You want to start trolling again or something? I am not a legal secretary.

You guys don't get it. They will decide what to do with their game. You guys thought you could control the outcome of this game by walking all over people such as myself and other new people. Well how about you use that to rally the opinion of something along the lines of strength in numbers? You think 10 Pandas trolling a bunch of independent folks on this forum is going to catch the positive attention of a Dev?

Naz, you really ought to give your head a shake. We all want to same thing and you make pathetic remarks such as that.
To be honest, dont try to play the White night or the STO Jesus / Mohamed in this game. It does not suit you. They stood for honesty and integrity - you frankly change colur like a Pax Romney to suit your agenda for the day.

As a group, we have done more to help the PVP cause than you care to acknowledge with our "strength of numbers".

And we never "bullied" these people into anything.

I personally want STO PVP to succeed more than you'll know.
aka NazHuggyBear2

"No, there is no real problem with P2W in STO. Obviously, if you fight against someone with an equal level of skill in the game, better equipment will give you an edge. But usually, it is the skill level that determines the outcome, not the P2W." - Sprinkles

Last edited by naz4; 11-14-2012 at 04:31 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,113
# 46
11-14-2012, 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fakehilbert View Post
I think the answer to this problem is not more secrecy from cyptic, but rather better communication.
Heh, a lack of communication is not necessarily a case of more secrecy - could just be a lack of communication. That being said though - communication often goes a long way.

Even if it's not the news you want to hear, it can be less frustrating/angering/etc to get that news than have it go on and on and on.

It's like a bad marriage - where one of the spouses has developed feelings for another. They can either end it - or - they can carry something on, etc, etc, etc. Then maybe they'll end up on ID late at night. What's their newest show? Wives with Knives?

Makes me think of the RIFT beta. It was the best beta I've been in - 16 years of MMO gaming - and it was the best. Because of the communication. Course, the game went live - the communication disappeared - and...so did I (leaving before my extended sub expired).

One can definitely see where some would feel that Cryptic's been stringing them along. Even were Cryptic to deliver, such negative feelings will have accumulated over the period up to that point... it may not matter.

Of course, when they've tried to be honest about where PvP fits into things - they get blasted for that as well...meh. Still though, they probably need to look inside and see that they probably even preferred that quick blast to the dragged out moaning.

It's not good for either side.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 44
# 47
11-14-2012, 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz4 View Post
To be honest, dont try to play the White night or the STO Jesus / Mohamed in this game. It does not suit you. They stood for honesty and integrity - you frankly change colur like a Pax Romney to suit your agenda for the day.

As a group, we have done more to help the PVP cause than you care to acknowledge with our "strength of numbers".
Pax'Romney? QQn
Galron Says PEW PEW!!!!!!!!
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 48
11-14-2012, 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz4 View Post
To be honest, dont try to play the White night or the STO Jesus / Mohamed in this game. It does not suit you. They stood for honesty and integrity - you frankly change colur like a Pax Romney to suit your agenda for the day.

As a group, we have done more to help the PVP cause than you care to acknowledge with our "strength of numbers".

And we never "bullied" these people into anything.

I personally want STO PVP to succeed more than you'll know.
What the heck are you talking about? Savior of what? You guys love imposing negative titles on me, and it's just outright nuts how far you guys will go. LoL

No I am not the savior of PvP nor do I desire to be it. Nor am I trying to make myself be considered one.

Now aside all the names you've called me, do you honestly still think I'm here to do you harm? Or disagree with you when it comes to how this game needs work?

How much backwards can you guys go? Lashing out at people who totally agree with you, lmao you guys are a piece of work.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,038
# 49
11-14-2012, 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
That threshold is different. Was my point. People are more entitled, more impatient now than they were. They're very spoiled. It's always been about wanting more for less, but that amount of more and that amount of less have changed. The sheer number of options they have - has empowered them - it's dropped their level of tolerance - thus, leaving them more entitled and more impatient.

Throw in the pseudo anonymity of the internet - and - they've also become more emboldened. Much like some folks will joke about "internet tough guy" discussions on forums - the same happens with reviews and complaints. People will write crap on the internet that they would never say in person - Hell, stuff they wouldn't even put on an anonymous comment card.

They're quicker to complain, more negative, etc, etc, etc.

They're spoiled. The ability to have near instant gratification in so many arenas of their lives has led to the expectation of that near instant gratification always being met. When it's not...

...and when it is met, it's usually followed by complaints of boredom.

Each year, it's more and more like dealing with toddlers crying that they want ice cream for dinner rather than rational adults...

Because people have changed.
Yes I understand what you are saying and I think you are right... although that topic is a debated one in circles where people study human behaviour... but I will grant you the point. As I do share that opinion about peoples willingness to be outspoken.

I think at its core though that people are no different now then they where. They are simply more vocal about it. I had a saying when I ran a store directly (yes it was a few years back now that I was a frontline guy)... customers that complain loudly are a blessing. I had to drill that into people that worked for me... complaints are a good thing. They are the people that speak for the 10 customers that came before them... and simply left. Going even further back when I sold sold things and this has never changed... objections are always a good thing... nothing worse then trying to close a sale and having some one be wishy washy, or simply say NO... real objections can be countered.
This is the entirety of the point I was trying to make to Bran.

People that loudly moan about a product because they truly care about it... end up speaking for those of us that won't bother, either as you say we are still timid folk from the 70s ... or we didn't hit a threshold of giving a flying Frak. For every one forum crazy in the pvp section that is raising cain... there are 3 more people that don't bother to add there voices. They may check that "gone to another game" box on there exit card... they don't however come here and say HEY guys I'm still alive and I still have money to spend, I want service first, THIS is what I want to see. The "left for another game" option on the exit survey is as good as a NO. You can't work with that.

Instead of putting up the "Be Nice or Fly Away" Sign at the customer complaint desk... its b est to LISTEN and perhaps understand how to move forward, and if you can't convert that customer to a happy one perhaps you can understand the issue and remove the possibility that you are looking at a new face a week later with the same complaint.
/channel_join Tyler Durden
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,143
# 50
11-14-2012, 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
What the heck are you talking about? Savior of what? You guys love imposing negative titles on me, and it's just outright nuts how far you guys will go. LoL

No I am not the savior of PvP nor do I desire to be it. Nor am I trying to make myself be considered one.

Now aside all the names you've called me, do you honestly still think I'm here to do you harm? Or disagree with you when it comes to how this game needs work?

How much backwards can you guys go? Lashing out at people who totally agree with you, lmao you guys are a piece of work.
I remember you drawing the first "Sword" so to speak. Remeber accusing the Pandas of controlling the markets and abusing the Pandas of SNB DOFF proliferation?

You verbally attacked us first and then cry when we respond in kind.... You did the Romney maneuver right there!
aka NazHuggyBear2

"No, there is no real problem with P2W in STO. Obviously, if you fight against someone with an equal level of skill in the game, better equipment will give you an edge. But usually, it is the skill level that determines the outcome, not the P2W." - Sprinkles

Last edited by naz4; 11-14-2012 at 04:48 PM.
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