Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 121
11-15-2012, 07:46 AM
I don't know if there should really be any "governance". Yes, PvP is pretty much a small community at this point but most of us want to see fresh faces, and in the end "PvP" should simply mean just that: player versus player. In a better world it'd be a vital game mode and not so much a 'community' alone.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,717
# 122
11-15-2012, 07:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
/snip
I completely agree pax, civility and praise where it is due, will improve PvP......oH wait, we've heared that one before, and it didn't work.

Don't believe, me, check out a Jorf's posts and see how and when his feedback received attention.

When they have absolutely nothing else left to say, the community rep in arms, comes in here and nannies the forums. First time ppl believed, him toned it down, and saw things going downhill even faster. Once people started raging again, looky look feedback got acknowledged. Again its Cryptic and its Devs, and community reps, that are responsible for the state of PvP and the attitude they receive from the PvP community.

it never was and never will be the other way around. No matter how many times they repeat the line of be nice, we care about you (oops Private Queues are gone).
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 123
11-15-2012, 08:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
A) The community is partially to blame. Mainly because we're absolutely out of control on the forums, and in organizedpvp. There's really no governance at all, and those that have been around for the longest tend to bash on those that have not been around as long.
.
heres the thing though, back when pvp was first getting neglected we did everything the "nice" way. never argued, never called them names and we were always told that our feedback is important etc etc etc.

then came a bug. a bug so bad the "nice" complaints got banned for bringing it up, "discribing and exploit" was the excuse given.

it took total outrage on the forums to get something done. lots of people were banned in the process but in the end, the bug was fixed.

every time after that when a major bug was discovered, the "nice" way to get their attention was still tried but only until major uproaring on the forums was anything done.


now.... im not saying that excuses everything anyone says here but you have to understand. the ones who are posting a lot are the veterans who have been around since those days and remember that the only way to get their attention (good or bad) is to cause an uproar.


history has show how to get cryptic to get things done, the major problem now is that they are seemingly ignoring us all together causing further outrages/threads on things not releating to sto.

the community veterans are the way they are towards cryptic now because of the constant lies/misleading/broken promises from the past 3 years, adding to that now the totaly ignoring of pvp when adding in new content/ways to earn currencys WHEN doing pvp makes more sense to earn some of those currencys then the pve missions theyre tied too.

this shows a complete lack of interest in even maintaing pvp on a playable level because no matter what you HAVE to pve to earn the best gear in the game.

take also the new personal reputation system and the rammifications it'll have on pvp and the romulan embassy and its super science console.....

all only earnable through pve.

kerrat could easily add omega marks as a reward.

take the kerrat map, and swap in borgified romulans or regular romulans and BOOM, instant way to earn romulan marks via pvp.





they dont care, they never will care. history has shown this, and they apparently are ignoring the past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 124
11-15-2012, 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post
I completely agree pax, civility and praise where it is due, will improve PvP......oH wait, we've heared that one before, and it didn't work.

Don't believe, me, check out a Jorf's posts and see how and when his feedback received attention.

When they have absolutely nothing else left to say, the community rep in arms, comes in here and nannies the forums. First time ppl believed, him toned it down, and saw things going downhill even faster. Once people started raging again, looky look feedback got acknowledged. Again its Cryptic and its Devs, and community reps, that are responsible for the state of PvP and the attitude they receive from the PvP community.

it never was and never will be the other way around. No matter how many times they repeat the line of be nice, we care about you (oops Private Queues are gone).
Nothing is going to change. Causing a stink about it won't either was my point. So you missed my point.

I should of made it as simple as that but I thought explaining it to my friends would be a kinder gesture.

Hakuna Matata.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 125
11-15-2012, 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post


they dont care, they never will care. history has shown this, and they apparently are ignoring the past.
Exactly. You missed my point btw. I said they don't care, and causing a stink about it won't make a difference. Hakuna Matata or MWO. So that's what it really boils down to.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 126
11-15-2012, 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
Exactly. You missed my point btw. I said they don't care, and causing a stink about it won't make a difference. Hakuna Matata or MWO. So that's what it really boils down to.
unless you've sunk a lot of money in this game before it went bad and still want it to get better.


thats basically like saying to someone who got run over by a car to "walk it off"
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 230
# 127
11-15-2012, 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
But one thing's for sure, being reckless as we have been on here ain't going to change a thing.
I see absolutely no reason to believe that not being reckless would change things. It simply does not matter how people in the pvp forums behave whe it comes to pvp development.

It is impossible to have constructive discussions about game mechanics because cryptic is incapable of formulating what their design intentions are. (See my old "Is this working as intended?" thread. This should have been a very easy thing to do with simple yes/no answers from the devs. It didn't really go anywhere.) The original design of the SNB doff implied a nuke every ~3s when playing against a full team. Nobody ever explained how they came to the conclusion that this is a good idea. (Or alternatively admitted that they simply have no plan at all and just try things that sound cool.)

One of the few times someone tried to explain reasons was when borticus said that they were coupling EPtS and ES cooldowns because people weren't using TSS/HE enough. Of course they did not show us which data led them to believe this, and the data that we as a community have available showed no indication that their reasoning had any connection to reality.

The problem that we cannot give constructive feedback without at least some kind of idea what cryptic's intentions and capabilities are was the topic in this thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=270149 - Gozer's answer to this was that he left cryptic...

An example that shows how cryptic hiding their technical problems leads to discontent is the pvp map situation. It should have been trivial to calm the pvp community be giving them a new pvp map (map, not game mode) every 3-6 months. Just take an empty map with a new background image, put a meaningless object in the middle and 6 transwarp gates in a circle and the map is complete. They did not do this although it sounds like an incredibly good idea to satisfy the basic wishes of that community and at the same time spend less than 10 minutes on designing the map.
I firmly believe that they are incapable to make such a map because their spawn point system (for dynamic spawn points based on factions) is beyond repair. This also explains why they cannot fix Kerrat (they tried during S2 or S3 testing and in the process they broke C&H spawnpoints on tribble for a day).

If we knew about such technical limitations we could focus our feedback on things that have a chance of being implemented and avoid issues that cryptic can't or won't fix anyway (like solving the massive balance problems that stems from carriers and the way how pets are handled).

Last edited by fakehilbert; 11-15-2012 at 08:13 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 128
11-15-2012, 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fakehilbert View Post
I see absolutely no reason to believe that not being reckless would change things. It simply does not matter how people in the pvp forums behave whe it comes to pvp development.

It is impossible to have constructive discussions about game mechanics because cryptic is incapable of formulating what their design intentions are. (See my old "Is this working as intended?" thread. This should have been a very easy thing to do with simple yes/no answers from the devs. It didn't really go anywhere.) The original design of the SNB doff implied a nuke every ~3s when playing against a full team. Nobody ever explained how they came to the conclusion that this is a good idea. (Or alternatively admitted that they simply have no plan at all and just try things that sound cool.)

One of the few times someone tried to explain reasons was when borticus said that they were coupling EPtS and ES cooldowns because people weren't using TSS/HE enough. Of course they did not show us which data led them to believe this, and the data that we as a community have available showed no indication that their reasoning had any connection to reality.

The problem that we cannot give constructive feedback without at least some kind of idea what cryptic's intentions and capabilities are was the topic in this thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=270149 - Gozer's answer to this was that he left cryptic...

An example that shows how cryptic hiding their technical problems leads to discontent is the pvp map situation. It should have been trivial to calm the pvp community be giving them a new pvp map (map, not game mode) every 3-6 months. Just take an empty map with a new background image, put a meaningless object in the middle and 6 transwarp gates in a circle and the map is complete. They did not do this although it sounds like an incredibly good idea to satisfy the basic wishes of that community and at the same time spend less than 10 minutes on designing the map.
I firmly believe that they are incapable to make such a map because their spawn point system (for dynamic spawn points based on factions) is beyond repair. This also explains why they cannot fix Kerrat (they tried during S2 or S3 testing and in the process they broke C&H spawnpoints on tribble for a day).

If we knew about such technical limitations we could focus our feedback on things that have a chance of being implemented and avoid issues that cryptic can't or won't fix anyway (like solving the massive balance problems that stems from carriers and the way how pets are handled).
They committed themselves on hitting that sub nuke button, they hit it and there is no sci team in this community to clear it. So screaming sci team isn't going to make a difference.

I'm just looking out for you guys before you guys blow out a vein or something.. Some of the TRH guys have gotten very angry too. I know it can get, you should of heard me when I first found out about SN Doffs.

I'm not saying be nice because they'll be changes. I'm saying, there won't be changes so there's no sense getting upset over it. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. Wasting time on these forums, I don't know but I feel like I should buddy up and tell you guys as friends that you're wasting your own time.

Unless... We take a different approach? Not on the forums obviously, but a different avenue of directly contacting someone at their head offices? Like target calling this calls for a target change perhaps? Bran has 4 extends on him + rsp + ablative + vesta bs + steamrunner + miracle worker + ... etc.. lol.

Brainstorm it?

Last edited by paxottoman; 11-15-2012 at 08:26 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 230
# 129
11-15-2012, 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
Wasting time on these forums, I don't know but I feel like I should buddy up and tell you guys as friends that you're wasting your own time.
Maybe it's not your intention, but this "don't waste your time" sounds a lot like "shut up" - which doesn't make much sense since you apparently do understand that nothing we write on the forums has any relevant effect on the development. So why do you care so much how other people behave on the forums?
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 130
11-15-2012, 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fakehilbert View Post
Maybe it's not your intention, but this "don't waste your time" sounds a lot like "shut up" - which doesn't make much sense since you apparently do understand that nothing we write on the forums has any relevant effect on the development. So why do you care so much how other people behave on the forums?
I'm not saying shut up.

Fine go ahead. Yell at the Devs man. I couldn't careless.

A change of strategy is what I suggested. Obviously the forums are not the way to go.
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