Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 320
# 311
11-15-2012, 10:54 AM
Thank you Mr. Stahl.

I was impressed with S7 but as some have stated before the removal of the dilithium rewards from STF's seemed to overshadow everything that was done. I was usually able to reach my 8000k dilithium cap (I'm a lifer but I didn't manage to get 9000k regularly) but since S7 went live (granted it's only a few days old) I never even came close. I love STF's but I'm not a big fan of the other ways available to get dilithium. I do believe you maid the right decision.

Again thank you and keep up the good work. As a KDF player I'm eagerly looking forward to S8 and maybe to a Romulan faction
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 71
# 312
11-15-2012, 11:45 AM
I've uninstalled, I hated the starbase in s6 for being a waste of time and resources, but at least it was optional and I opted to ignore it. Now a player has their own mini starbase system just to be given permission to buy stuff that used to be given out as a lucky reward drop in STF's.

Its not fun, its just grinding and grinding, none stop. Its not just the excessive costs in dilithium, its the timegating as well. If there was a Z store token that could be purchased that gives instant access to tier 5 store content (say 2500 zen) then I might grind the necessary dil for that even if I have to pay more dil just to get the stuff I want.

This is just disgraceful.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,927
# 313
11-15-2012, 12:12 PM
Thank you for listening. The new dil spread is a great compromise; STFs still give out dilithium in fair amounts, Fleet Actions still have dilithium to further increase the options one has in filling out their dil cap per day. Well done.

Now about the DOff grinder... <__<
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 915
# 314
11-15-2012, 12:19 PM
Space Fleet Action runs will grant 480 Dilithium

nope they do not just done 6 space fleet actions and no dilithium , and neither do stf's so what gives Mr. Stahl ?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 115
# 315
11-15-2012, 12:32 PM
WTF, yes they have brought back the dilithium in the STF's, but the cooldown time went up with 30 minutes. 1h30 now instead 1 hour. Is this the way to pay respect to your paying costumers ???
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 316
# 316
11-15-2012, 12:34 PM
This is not really a fix. I'm not really jumping off my seat here about the "compromise" and meeting us "half way". If anything it's just another let down.

This has much effect on the player base as dropping a stone in the ocean. You've got to open your eyes and see the wood for the trees.... or in your case, see the trees in general. You can't continue to turn a blind eye to some of the horrible changes you've made.

After this long up hill struggle to get back in the position we once were in to buy that elite gear, we've got to spend around 80k dilithium for one piece. Now, even if I were able to make enough dilithium to buy all the equipment I want, I would have to wait every 10 days to refine enough to buy it. That's one piece every 10-11 days based on what you said a piece of equipment should cost. If we're willing to put the hard work in, why make it even more difficult?

Reduce the wait times on the projects, either make the gear purchasable with Marks or remove the dilithium fees for Crafting and the General Recruitment of DOFF's on SFA and replace it with EC or even Fleet Credits. The other bright spark idea you came up with is increasing the fee on the Reassigning Duty Officers to get better qualities. So let's look at the facts:

White to Green: Now 500 Dilithium - Increase from 25
Green to Blue: Now 2500 Dilithium - Increase from 100
Blue to Purple: Now 5000 Dilithium - Increase from 500

B-Tran Double Reward - GONE (1440 Dil Reward Reduction)

Embassy Added - More Dil projects

Fleet Projects still not scaled or reduced on Dil requirements except for Tier IV and V (which not alot of people I know have even reached yet.)

End game gear - Average 85k Dil per piece.

General Recruitment Doff - 1k Dil each.

The cost of a Common Unreplicateable Material is 10 Refined dilithium
The cost of an Uncommon Unreplicateable Material is 1000 Refined dilithium

Dil Store - Still there.

Dilithium Cap Increase - Oh, still not done that?

How do you expect people to enjoy this game with these kind of unreasonable targets? You want us to refine more, but you take more avenues away for us to earn it. You give us more things that cost dilithium or increase the cap on stuff that didn't need increasing but yet don't change the Refinement Cap. Many players have families to take care of and full time jobs, at the same time we don't expect everything to be handed over to us on a silver platter, but you should make it fair so we can get a good challenge and still enjoy our experience.

I use to play Final Fantasy 11 for about 8 years and now I have Final Fantasy 14 online. Before you login you get a message -

"Exploring Vana'diel is a thrilling experience.
During your time here, you will be able to talk, join,
and adventure with many other individuals in an experience
that is unique to online games.

That being said, we have no desire to see your real life
suffer as a consequence.
Don't forget your family, your friends, your school,
or your work."

You should really take a page out of their book. As it feels like in order to get anywhere and enjoy the experience of everything this game has to offer we need to devote all our free time, which in turn would effect our real lives. Now I know many might say that your not holding a gun against our heads and we don't have to play and that it's free, so be happy. But a free service is still a service and there are still all the players that have put plenty of time and money in this game including the Gold Members and LTS (myself included).

Remember what Star Trek is about and equality for everybody. If you focus on service and don't worry about your income, you'll find that the income will come anyway because it will make people want to be and stay a part of STO.
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 22
# 317
11-15-2012, 03:25 PM
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post

After many hours of deliberation and review of the post Season 7 player data, I've made the call to reverse the decision to remove Dilithium as a reward for running STFs. In addition, we've also decided to keep Dilithium as a reward in Fleet Actions.

There have been numerous posts explaining the rationale that went into the reward changes and I can clearly state that our goal of getting more Dilithium into the average player has been very successful. As the data suggested, there is a huge contingent of players that simply do not play STFs but are eager to earn Dilithium in other content. These players are benefiting from the addition of Dilithium in the Fleet Actions, so that worked well.

However, our concern that there would be too much Dilithium in the economy if we left Dilithium in both STFs and Fleet Actions has been outweighed by the frustration we've seen from STF fans since the launch of Season 7.

Season 7 is an awesome content filled update that the team is very proud of that has been overshadowed by player frustrations over the Dilithium changes. Cryptic has and always will take player feedback into consideration when making decisions and this is a case where we agree with the players that Dilithium should be back in the STFs. It is more fun to run STFs when you can earn Dilithium towards end game gear and no amount of data driven logic can outweigh this.

So here are the changes we'll be making in a maintenance build by the end of this week.
  • Normal STF runs will grant 480 Dilithium
  • Elite STF runs will grant 960 Dilithium
  • Space Fleet Action runs will grant 480 Dilithium
  • Ground Fleet Action runs will grant 640 Dilithium

This is in addition to the other rewards that STFs and Fleet Actions grant.

While this is still a change from Season 6, we hope that these new amounts will help the average player earn more Dilithium per day while maintaining the Dilithium that players who like to run STFs were receiving.

The additional Dilithium may impact the player-to-player Dilithium exchange rates in the future, but we would rather you were having fun in Season 7 than worrying about the economy. We have enough of that to deal with in the real world.

Thank you for your patience and for being the best community of any MMO.

- dstahl

(p.s. the web team has updated the blog I posted last night with these changes to help cut down on confusion.)
Dear Mr. Stahl,

I'm a former Gold player for around 2 years and I'm actually a F2P gamer. I loved the game and i was considering IF i should subscribe a LTS. I'm deeply concerned about it since YOUR COMPANY lost my personal & financial data due to sloppiness and carelessness in securing such sensitive information. However, i was really interested to buy a LTS before S7. Now, this interest is lost!
I'm glad that you (as a representative of Cryptic/PWE) partially-reversed the foolish removal of dilithium from STFs; but, the removal of dilithium - an in-game currency - from the STFs was not the only problem in the game economy of S7. With the new Season we have got reduced earning of in-game currencies (Yes, also Exchange economics have been affected by S7 due to changes in inputs needed for Fleet Starbases' projects) coupled with an huge increase in costs due - as an example - to the need of dilithium inputs to acquire and reassign our DOFFs. You claim your concern about too much dilithium flooding S7 however your way to deal with the issue was overreacting! If we were in the real world the situation Cryptic/PWE made with the S7 patch was called a "Credit Crunch"!
I did some maths about the costs to acquire and reassign our DOFFs:

1 Very Rare DOFF (Purple) = 155000 dilithium (5x Blue DOFFs + 5000 dilithium fee)
1 Rare DOFF (Blue) = 30000 dilithium (5x Green DOFFs + 2500 dilithium fee)
1 Uncommon DOFF (Green) = 5500 dilithium (5x White DOFFs + the 500 dilithium fee)
1 Common DOFF (White) = 1000 dilithium

Now, I see currency trading on Dilithium Exchange at 1 Zen = 159 Dilithium. You put a "Federation Duty Officer Pack" on sale in the Store at 200 Zen and a "Reinforcements Duty Officer Pack" at 275 Zen. So, We could even save something if We buy such packs on the Store but, people didn't use the "Reassign under-performing Duty Officers" mission to acquire DOFFs on the cheap! They used this mission to free up their rosters that fill up very rapidly, no matters how big they are. Dismissing them is a total loss since you already revised rewards from dismissing DOFFs downward during S6, and with S7 you've not corrected the imbalance, yet.
During previous Seasons I've been used to convert Zen not earned in game into dilithium to help me reach some target like buying a Tier V ship or something else. Now, You force me also to grind as much as possible (a.k.a. staying longer connected to STO) to keep the pace with other players. I cannot grind that much - even with the correction you made today - and i cannot put more real world money in a game due to real world financial constraints. So, You're basically kicking me out of the game.
I don't like also your changes on requirements for Fleet Starbase projects. My fleet was one of the few fleets doing Bartender project during S6 at huge costs. After the completion of the said project, We started saving and collecting to prepare for the Chef project of Tier IV. I bought a Purple Cardassian Chef on the Exchange to help them acquire Cardassian Taspar Eggs and make energy credits to eventually acquire the Hearts of Targ needed to start the aforesaid project. Now, this is no longer useful and energy credits lost since you decided to change the rules of playing by putting common items in Fleet Starbase Projects. I've also been used to replicate some stacks of Cardassian Taspar Eggs to put them on sale on the Exchange during the night; now, I've all the said Eggs from the night before the S7 Patch blocking my Exchange slots. I'm not too eager taking such a loss in Energy Credits, too. Since you give an unfair advantage to other fleets/players we must be compensated for our losses!

I should complain also about your foolish disabling of the Foundry and of the Private Queues but here in Europe is already late...so, be prepared to receive a separate complain about the Foundry and of the Private Queues in the next few days.

Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 613
# 318
11-15-2012, 03:33 PM
Originally Posted by adorkabledori View Post
WTF, yes they have brought back the dilithium in the STF's, but the cooldown time went up with 30 minutes. 1h30 now instead 1 hour. Is this the way to pay respect to your paying costumers ???
Where is that info? is that currently on holodeck? I never checked. But if that is so... then that is even worse than before XD

On a side note, like I said, they threw a few crumbs after robbing our Bread Loaf... it feels so empty.

| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 89
# 319
11-15-2012, 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
It wasn't an easy decision by any stretch of the imagination and even though the Dilithium changes to remove STFs has been on TRIBBLE since the test weekend promo, it wasn't until we looked at the data today and saw that everyone had more Dilithium on average and still weren't happy - that I decided that the data driven approach was accomplishing the goal of giving players more Dilithium, but wasn't making some of our hardcore players happy at all.

As others have pointed out, this is a more balanced approach that may have implications for Dilithium exchange rates in the future (because there will be much more Dilithium in the economy) - but we want players having fun with the new Season 7 content - not worrying about how to get Dilithium.

So in other words - we stuck to our guns - left the change in - it accomplished exactly what we wanted it to (help players get more Dilithium) but that doesn't equal "fun" for the community. We needed to see the data after S7 launch in order to realize that players can have their cake and eat it too and the game will be ok.
This might have been said by someone else but I want to say it. The players control the economy and the players are well always greedy. The market shouldnt change that much because there is a bit more dilithium. I myself hold onto a lot of dilithium. Heck I use to have 200K but I used it on my fleet. We will deal with the extra dilithium better than you think we will i suspect. And you know what we will better be able to take care of our fleets and our mates after all we still can only convert 8000.

I look forward to the next addition to the game and am still very hopeful in the prospect of the Romulans being in some way shape or form playable.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 316
# 320
11-15-2012, 04:22 PM
Originally Posted by veradodan View Post
I did some maths about the costs to acquire and reassign our DOFFs:

1 Very Rare DOFF (Purple) = 155000 dilithium (5x Blue DOFFs + 5000 dilithium fee)
1 Rare DOFF (Blue) = 30000 dilithium (5x Green DOFFs + 2500 dilithium fee)
1 Uncommon DOFF (Green) = 5500 dilithium (5x White DOFFs + the 500 dilithium fee)
1 Common DOFF (White) = 1000 dilithium
You might want to change those statistics. Whether it's a glitch or not I'm not sure but I just went to check this and it's showing to get 1 Very Rare it's 6000 Dilithium + 5 Rare Doffs, 3000 Dilithium for Rare and 600 for Uncommon. So either Cryptic has made a mistake or they've done this behind our backs, as I didn't see anything about this change being made. Apologies if it already has been mentioned.
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