Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 71
11-15-2012, 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjohnsonva View Post
It is not logical to charge more than the market can stand. If $99 ships will sell better than $50 ships interms of overall profit then yes they will be charged accordingly. There is no evidence to suggest that price point is on the horizon at all.
And I never said it was 'on the horizon' - I simply said 'before this game closes its doors' - (which it will at some point because everything ends). I'm not expecting these bundles to suddenly double in price but $5 will be added here and $10 there - or perhaps they'll start 'bundling' these ships with bridges (as the Vesta should have had) and that'll give them all the more reason to charge a 'premium' - and hey - since you guys all bought 3 'variants' of the same ship for $50 - you'd be willing to do that for again for $75 if we threw in a bridge too wouldn't you? Of course you would.
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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 60
# 72
11-15-2012, 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weylandjuarez View Post
And I never said it was 'on the horizon' - I simply said 'before this game closes its doors' - (which it will at some point because everything ends). I'm not expecting these bundles to suddenly double in price but $5 will be added here and $10 there - or perhaps they'll start 'bundling' these ships with bridges (as the Vesta should have had) and that'll give them all the more reason to charge a 'premium' - and hey - since you guys all bought 3 'variants' of the same ship for $50 - you'd be willing to do that for again for $75 if we threw in a bridge too wouldn't you? Of course you would.
nope on the last sentence,a new bridge should come with the ship regardless the Oddy set that standard.specially when each Oddy variant gets it own unique bridge(iirc).so like i said the devs shouldnt really change anything price wise in the c-store the ships seem to be in the sweet spot someone mentioned earlier as is.

Edit: If anything we should be poking the devs to make coresponding bridges for the vesta pack like they did the Oddy.
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. - Thomas Jefferson

Last edited by mastergenera1; 11-15-2012 at 10:41 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 85
# 73
11-15-2012, 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by manwholaughs View Post
You hit the nail right on the head there, cheaper items will sell a whole lot more, hence drawing in more revenue in the long term, but it seems most people here are too stupid to figure that out.
The thing is, Cryptic has bean counters in some form or fashion. They know how many are selling. They know what the market will bear.

I think it would be smarter to have more choices of more inexpensive items. Break out the consoles, the ship skins, and bridges as separately priced items. Sell texture unlocks, decals, and other things for smaller amounts. Sell convenience items like on-demand trade freighters or summonable crafting stations. And price then to sell often.

This is what LotRO does, in addition to actual paid expansions.

But, I'm not privy to the internal data. It's entirely possible that this is in fact what's necessary to keep the game financed.

Who knows?

-Forjo
Join Date: Aug 2008 -------------------- My oldest post (that I can find)
Location: Houston, TX ------------------ Former Cryptic User #11424

Stop the easily abused and unfair auto-silence "feature"!
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,018
# 74
11-15-2012, 10:54 AM
A lot of sto's playerbase is the older end , with jobs , so buying a ship occasionally isnt exactly breaking the bank , and they seems to be priced based on this

not saying they couldnt , or shouldnt be cheaper , but thats just the way it is
12th Fleet
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 793
# 75
11-15-2012, 08:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaz200565 View Post
The new vesta ship looks very good. However it is far too expensive to buy.
Do the devs think we all are loaded with lots of money? No we are not.
Please review the price of this ship and make it more affordable.

On a separate note,the projects are extortiately expensive especially in dilithium.
We do not all have pots of money to spend on this game.
If you keep pushing prices up,you will lose players.
I do understand that cryptic/pw is a business and you have to make money,but please understand we are not all rich and can afford anything you put into this game.
Prices on everything including resources on all projects needs to come right down,so us ordinary people can afford it.
In conclusion,keep putting prices up and you will lose players.
Get prices on all things and all projects right down,and that will attract more new players to STO.
Please help us have more fun,and do not penalise us.
I think giving us a non-canon ship that is pretty boring and unimaginative is what is penalizing us.
A few players thought "Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God!! the VESTA!!!" Umm ok. It is basically flatter than the Odyssey, and nothing about it is unique.
If they had given us some alien ship, like say, ones encountered by Enterprise (like the unknown aliens who attacked but didn't communicate), or one that Voyager encountered - of which there are numerous - coupled with a unique console(s) and a few unique combat abilities, I'd say yes. 10 or even 24 dollars would be worth it (to buy the Steam pack).

But as it is, selling 3 vesta ships, with the only differences being extra consoles slots, and not providing certain specifications in the C-store, is extremly unappealing. The onyl reason they added that awful ship is because a minority of people think that the 'Destiny' books are super-awesome (even though, frankly, the three 40th Anniversary Crucible books are far superior to any other Star Trek books written; akin to Dan Simmons 'Hyperion' series).

Honestly, the whole thing is quite insulting.

At the very least, they should have designers, with good eyes (who use photo-shop or 3DMax, for example), to make models of unique star-ships that have been seen in all of Star Trek so that STO can have a unique variety of ships from which players can choose. Like in Discovery mod for Freelancer. They continuously make new ships, of different classes and factions - often getting input from current players - and players are able to go to any base and buy the ship as long as they have the resources and proper reputation.
I know, the ships in that mod are not all canon, but they have stayed true to the Freelancer universe/story/lore. STO can do that as well - as long as 'certain' people listen to the players once in a while.
My point with that, is, they should communicate with us once in a while so that potential customers (read: paying customers), and current customers will be willing to support the game monetarily.

And of course concerning the idea of "Like in Discovery mod for Freelancer. They continuously make new ships, of different classes and factions", it would be somewhat limiting at the moment, since there are only 2 playable groups, where as in Freelancer, there are a few dozen.

But once STO is able to expand the amount of playable races, across the galaxy, we'll be able to see more ships.

The main problem is the limitation of only having UFP and KDF playable races.

Last edited by apocalypse2001; 11-15-2012 at 08:51 PM. Reason: punctuation
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 960
# 76
11-15-2012, 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiberteksyfir View Post
Not defending either side of this thread, just read it and like to supply my 2 cents of stating it costs $0 to mod ships into a game, case and point: http://starfleetcommand3.filefront.com/

And there's umpteen other sites for SFC, Armada, BC, etc etc etc.
It costs zero to do it yourself, and no one is being paid for the work. Devs have to eat, too you know. STO is a commercial product, and development/assets/etc. cost time, money, and manpower to implement, especially in an MMO.

I have no intention to disparage modders or their work. True, modders sometimes create work that is more valuable than stuff that is sold (house mods in skyrim are better than the official hearthfire DLC), but your example is in no way a fair comparison. Modders do their work out of love. They have their own day jobs. Cryptic devs do not. STO and whatever else is part of their livelihood (as well as their company's financial health).

You can't seriously expect them to give you this stuff for free just because modders (who have no genuine stake in seeing the games they mod fail or succeed) make similar products for entirely different games (that are not MMOs, by the way, nor free-to-play).

I am not rich by any means, but from my perspective, having some insight on how much it costs to develop content for a game, the price is high, but unfairly so. If you don't like it, don't buy it, or wait for a sale. It's as simple as that.

Quote:
The company will set the price based on the best return.

There will be a minimum price which will cover the costs.

There will be a maximum price that would not sell well.

In between these two is a sweet spot, the best price the market can stand with the best return based on the metrics of previous purchases.

They may indeed sell more ships at a lower price but there will be a price point whereby they sell the maximum number of ships to the maximum number of people. This is the price they currently use.

Therefore the price is unlikely to change unless market forces dictate a change. There will always be those that can't afford something and state if you lower the price I would buy it, but if they did that they would lose money because they are already selling the maximum number they can and the few extra purchases at a lower price would not make up for the less purchases at a higher price.

Sales 101
Bravo, and kudos to you. Of all the posts in this thread that have been "quoted for truth", this is one of the only ones that merits the action.

I doubt anyone in this thread is in a position to truly see how well or badly Cryptic is doing financially. Only they, PWE, and people stealing their records are in a position to know and make a genuine, accurate analysis.

What works for one business(selling tons of cheap items to high volumes of people) might not work for another (selling premium items to a small number of dedicated consumers). Clearly, Cryptic and PWE believe that this is their sweet spot. Only time can truly tell if they're right.

If they're right, then they're right, and STO will go on. If they're wrong, then they'll reverse course, or fail, and you and the whiners will have the last laugh. Bully for you.

Last edited by unangbangkay; 11-15-2012 at 09:16 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 793
# 77
11-16-2012, 12:40 AM
unangbangkay
i'm not talking about converting STO into a modder's game. I'm talking about the principle of getting information - ideas and models from very good gamers to expand STO!!
And its quite stupid to say that is "unrealitic". I never said They should give it to us for free. I said the PLAYERS would contribute their ideas to the developers to make it easier for them to make stuff instead of spending most of their time brainstorming.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,990
# 78
11-16-2012, 12:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by apocalypse2001 View Post
unangbangkay
i'm not talking about converting STO into a modder's game. I'm talking about the principle of getting information - ideas and models from very good gamers to expand STO!!
And its quite stupid to say that is "unrealitic". I never said They should give it to us for free. I said the PLAYERS would contribute their ideas to the developers to make it easier for them to make stuff instead of spending most of their time brainstorming.
does not matter CBS will have the finally say on ships....not to mention legal issues.


Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 960
# 79
11-16-2012, 12:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by apocalypse2001 View Post
unangbangkay
i'm not talking about converting STO into a modder's game. I'm talking about the principle of getting information - ideas and models from very good gamers to expand STO!!
And its quite stupid to say that is "unrealitic". I never said They should give it to us for free. I said the PLAYERS would contribute their ideas to the developers to make it easier for them to make stuff instead of spending most of their time brainstorming.
My analogy was to say that it costs money to implement new content, and that in a free-to-play game, players are more likely to pay a cost directly as new content enters the game, since there is theoretically no barrier to entry. If subscriber fees alone could pay for the resource expenditure, STO would not have gone free in the first place. Without subscriber fees and box sales to subsidize the new content, a direct proportional cost is much more likely, and that is the case here.

I was in no way saying that Cryptic should disregard player input. They put in the Vesta because a lot of novel nerds wanted it. They returned dil to STF rewards because the forums blew up. They're listening, and the ones complaining about their wondrous ideas getting ignored should first ask themselves if their ideas are all that good in the first place.

Then your answer notes that it costs nothing to mod content into the game. True, but as I said, it's not a fair or realistic comparison. Ideas are free, and players are constantly offering them, both good and bad (more often than not the latter). When someone needs to get paid, everything changes.

Last edited by unangbangkay; 11-16-2012 at 12:58 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,518
# 80
11-16-2012, 02:25 AM
I don't think its that expensive. To me the price is right. For one the game is F2P, for a game like this. Why not pay some to the company so they can keep it going for us to enjoy. They could go back to only pay to play. And charge us 15.00 regardless how many hours you log on. Next, I'm not a "ship collector" that wants to have all their ships. So by the time I pick out one of those top level ships it will be a big deal for me. Almost the rush of buying a new car.


If the $ isn't your way, just grind it out and do the zen transfers on the exchange. Then you can get the ship completely free, just it will take you a while. Or grind it down to where you pay like 1/2 the price to add zen to it. There is many ways to get the ship you want.
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