Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,127
I wanted to post some feedback that I hear in our fleet from those that don't normally enter the forums. We all know that forum users are a tiny percentage of the playerbase so their opinion is often excused as not entirely valid.

As someone who is now leading a medium sized fleet of 75 members I have a lot to deal with, I didn't join wanting to be in this position but here I am. When I hear of fleet member's concerns about the changes I have no positive answers to give them.

At the start of season 6 we'd have over 20 members on at a time, up to 30, by the end of season 6 the number was down, to be expected, to around 10 or so average but still peaking over 20. During season 7 so far it is 4-5, except for the first night but they dropped like flies early in the night.

The fleet is very average, we try to increase members skills but many are just very casual players. Over the time I see nearly all of them playing STFs and none are doing older fleet actions, we often play together on STFs, fleet actions for marks, and other activities. I do like to think our fleet is special, we have a lot of close people, and we play together frequently, it isn't just a chat room, we work together and achieve goals.

The comments I see from PMs and in fleet chat are like this....

New Romulus comments
"New Romulus is gorgeous but there is nothing to do. "
"New Romulus is boring, what a waste"
"Whats the point of New Romulus?"
There are a dozen variations on this, why so much development time if there is no content here?

The most concerning comments are:
"I already have a job, I don't want another"
we got one last night "well this looks like it for me, this isn't even fun anymore"
"This feels like I'm working"
Basically, people don't want to work, then come home to relax and have to work again. This is a game not a job, but S7 really has turned it into a job. I am not having any fun either, which means as a company you have failed.

"They took stuff away from everything I like to do"
"I don't want to play fleet actions"
"I don't understand the reputation system"
"Why don't I get any loot?"
"What is a reputation system?"
The average player has no clue WTH happened in S7. They are annoyed and frustrated.


Our starbase is nearly T4, we have been making steady progress, about 1k xp a day on average weekdays and 2k on weekends. Thats over. We don't get enough marks for one project a day now. Our fleet use to run Defera nightly in groups to get some marks, but now we are getting 60% of what we used to there, so that is basically out. Officer Reports is gone so those marks are out for the very casual players who used to be able to contribute a little, now can't contribute anything. This makes people feel useless.

So 3 days in, and we have already instead of a player increase, we are down 50% active, I'll admit my time in game is at 50% as well, I'm saying to myself "Whats the point?" We have players, good awesome people, so down by the changes they are leaving. We have a lot of players on the fence, there are so many complaints that the game feels like work and they don't want that stress, I know we'll lose more.


So what mistakes were made?
New Romulus - Gorgeous but pointless, its vast, its empty, its boring. So many hours put into creating something that just isn't worth it. It can be fixed..

STFs - Other than the crazy difficulty change, whats the point for having 8 different missions now? Its all bland, its the same thing. Lockboxes sell because of gambling, STFs were played because of the same reason, now there is no real point. Bring instant gratification back, make people EXCITED again. The vault wasn't played before because it was a low quality grinding reward, don't turn STFs into the same thing.. well you already did, but don't keep it that way.

Dilithium and marks - Obviously changed to make the game more profitable, it will undoubtedly backfire and create fewer players, these things tend to chain react. You made the game into a resource grind, its a job, you need to grind onto every resource there is to get less than before. It isn't fun, its work. Here is some news. The people that pay your bills are the mature working class, this is a lot of our fleet, we have income to spend on fun games. What people don't want is to come home from work, to unwind by working harder on a game. If you lose the people that pay, the F2P will not have ways to earn their money.. its a balance all F2P games need.

I have a feeling most of the resource removals are based on the multi character exploits. It would have been wiser to remove the ability to transfer huge amounts of dilithium across characters instead of penalizing every player in the game. You made the wrong decision, it will cost you. It was probably easy enough to do, create a 2nd style of zen where once its been converted once it can't be again and gets character bound on the dil exchange.

Reputation system - The casual players are completely clueless what this is, how to use it, that it even exists. What a terrible non-introduction.

Removal of efficiency - Sometimes its OK to have time limited missions to gain things faster than other ways. By removing B'Tran and the console clicking you essentially killed off the ability of the casual player to log on, spend less than an hour online and get stuff done. This complaint is 2nd only to the "feels like a 2nd job" complaint, and directly tied to it. Whats the big deal if every 24 hours someone could double up on a single dilithium mission? Its not even a 20 hr daily, its 24 hrs which means you are going to miss the recycle time and push it further back each day missing some. When progress feels lost, people quit games, not just here but everywhere.

Ultimately, I doubt I'll get a response to this, I doubt it will affect anything. I love change, but this wasn't a good change. I do really want to keep playing, to have our fleet online and having fun again, working together to achieve goals; but the morale after just 3 days is frightening.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,415
# 2
11-16-2012, 07:14 AM
Nice summary of what's wrong with S7
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,176
# 3
11-16-2012, 08:32 AM
yeah, the marks... we were grinding today nukara for 4 hours with a fleet friend (plus some fleet actions) - got some 200 points. TOGETHER.

and we have 5 projects to feed. plus the 2 upgrades. (4x210, 2x420, 1100 fleet marks needed)

you do not expect us to grind now the same stuff for 3 weeks just to advance these missions cryptic, are you?

solution - split accounts with more than 12 characters (or 10, or whatever). let them pay for their free dill and get the "Fleet Marks" party started again!

I don't see why a toon could not see some free 50 Fleet Marks JUST FOR LOGGING in.
A DAY.

Join the premiere Romulan community now!

Last edited by duaths1; 11-16-2012 at 10:57 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,559
# 4
11-16-2012, 08:43 AM
In regards to New Romulus, I'm hoping they spent a lot of time on it now so they have a framework to build upon later. They should be able to drop new content in pretty easily. Also there are those areas that can only be accessed by higher tier reputation people. I can't remember where but I read it but I remember reading that there will be missions in each area.

What I'm hoping for is that some unique items appear on Romulus. Items that will be used in a future crafting system. I honestly believe that crafting should not involve items that float everywhere in space. It you need on particular item, you should go to where it's found, not go to an expanse or do DOFF missions.

Apart from that, I'm liking where the reputation system is going. I would have preferred more than two passive skills to choose from when you go up a reputation tier, but systems like this will start to see truly uniquely skilled toons appearing. Yes, races have differences but they don't seem as pronounce as the differing abilities the reputation system appears to give us. I just hope they never allow us to to have all of the passive abilities at the same time. That would take away the individuality that the current system seems to offer.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 32
# 5
11-16-2012, 08:54 AM
I have to agree with the OP's sentiment. I have fully enjoyed playing STO and have usually supported the various changes and "improvements" that Cryptic has made. I can't however shake the resounding feeling of "meh" that I have right now for S7. Usually with new updates I'm scrambling to find time to log into STO and get to whatever new thing there is to do, or achieve.

Yes, New Romulus is beautiful - I've wandered it's entirety and completed the daily missions in each area. I've collected enough Omega and Romulan marks to begin reputation projects - but I fear that is where the issue lies for me. As many areas don't open up until I've reached a certain Tier, I can't explore any more, and while I'm waiting for the reputation projects to complete (40 hours per), I don't feel any "pressure" to run out and grind more STFs or Romulan Mark rewarding missions - even though I know I'll need them for future projects. So I kinda feel a little "meh".

I suppose with all the changes (Fleet Marks ESPECIALLY included in this) I feel like we're really in it for the long haul. I don't mind the long haul, but I've often felt before that many things were "within reach" and pushed me to play more and want to find the time to play. I just don't feel that push right now. I'm not exactly trying to complain, but the fact is S7 is cooling off my "need" to play, and if I cool off too much, I may start looking elsewhere to spend my precious entertainment time (and money).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 247
# 6
11-16-2012, 09:01 AM
fleets should have battles with each other

or they are pointless
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 335
# 7
11-16-2012, 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by duaths1 View Post
solution - split accounts with more than 12 characters (or 10, or whatever). let them pay for their free dill and get the "Fleet Marks" party started again!
You do realize people paid for those extra character slots,right? Not to mention all things account bound that people have paid for....I say: hell no!
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 97
# 8
11-16-2012, 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicha0 View Post
Removal of efficiency - Sometimes its OK to have time limited missions to gain things faster than other ways. By removing B'Tran and the console clicking you essentially killed off the ability of the casual player to log on, spend less than an hour online and get stuff done. This complaint is 2nd only to the "feels like a 2nd job" complaint, and directly tied to it. Whats the big deal if every 24 hours someone could double up on a single dilithium mission? Its not even a 20 hr daily, its 24 hrs which means you are going to miss the recycle time and push it further back each day missing some. When progress feels lost, people quit games, not just here but everywhere.
I really wish people would stop bringing up this bullsnot when making their arguments "against" Season 7. You have to realize it was a series of exploits that got fixed. They've told us flat-out, time and again, that Dilithium earnings are supposed to be based on time spent playing. If you can get as much from a single 5-minute clickfest (Foundry Clickie Exploit) as running a series of missions that could take up to an hour, then it was BROKEN and needed to be fixed.

Don't complain about having your earnings potential stripped away - you were exploiting a failure in their system. Which they have now fixed. You're wasting your time complaining about that, and not acknowledging that it was a long-overdue FIX just smacks of entitlement and greed.

As for New Romulus having "nothing to do"? Are you mental? I've already spent hours there, and am only like halfway thru the missions. And then there's the Reputation-based mission unlocks that I'll have to come back and experience as I progress thru that system.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 296
# 9
11-16-2012, 09:13 AM
OP, same thing is going on with my fleet - about 260 people, out of this 20, maybe 30 active. Since s7 started I rarely see more than 3-4 fleetmates online. One of the most active said things like "checked new romulus, got bored after 15 minutes" and "well lets see if the new patch takes out rest of the fun". We may count ourselves lucky, because we have one guy who actually buys zen and converts it for dilithium. Other than that, fleet projects came to halt because grinding fleet marks became a full time job. Fleet's opinion about s7 is "its not fun anymore".

Talos Force out.
May 2013, automatic permanent ban for mentioning gold-seller sites
pwebranflakes: this system is currently in place and working the way it should.
moradum: I got banned for saying "I started my day with cutting off 3 MM off of the bottom of my cabinet"
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,559
# 10
11-16-2012, 09:23 AM
I think it's important that people distinguish between Season 7 and the removal of the foundry daily clickie and the removal of the double-dip B'Tran cluster. Both of these were exploits that weren't meant to be in the game.

Season 7 in New Romulus, Embassies and Reputation.
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