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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 434
Oh I know, nerf is such a bad word. I suppose the alternative would be to boost the hell out of unbuffed base stats. So give ships ten times the hull and shields that they have now. It's the same basic idea of diminishing the all importance of stacking poorly balanced skills.

Want to reduce the likelihood of being instapopped or running into invincible zombies? Don't like "one shot kills" and yo-yo hull healing? Bring all abilities in the game back down to a reasonable level. Work out smarter mechanics for stacking items and skills. This would make the game more accessible for new players and add extra tactical dimensions for more skilled players.

There is a reason Commander and Captain level PvP were so much fun and it's largely related to the less twitchy game play. Call me crazy but we don't need this game to continue down this path of inaccessibility. The skill gap between players themselves is vast enough. Continuing to pile on more and more vastly over powered abilities is only going to further hurt the player base.

The game is too spammy. Abilities are too strong. There is a tremendous difference between a buffed ship and an unbuffed ship. Abilities should add dimensions to combat, not break it.
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 197
# 2
11-16-2012, 07:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehale View Post
abilities Should Add Dimensions To Combat, Not Break It.
^^^^ This ^^^^
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,953
# 3
11-16-2012, 09:59 AM
90% of survivability is out healing damage, 90% of useful damage dealing is CRF + other buffs, the base line is nothing. ive said the same thing in the past.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,111
# 4
11-16-2012, 06:02 PM
Hale,

you speak in a foreign tongue.

all i hear is logic, i don't think the devs will be able to grasp the message you are sending.

me on the other hand, i hear ya loud and clear.

have fun kill bad guys
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,755
# 5
11-16-2012, 06:11 PM
The OP is correct

Starship combat should take minutes not
Seconds
Jellico....Engineer.....Stargazer KDF Tac
Saphire.. Science.....Ko'el Rom Kdf Tac
Leva........Tactical.....Mailu KDF Sci

JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,501
# 6
11-16-2012, 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehale View Post
Oh I know, nerf is such a bad word. I suppose the alternative would be to boost the hell out of unbuffed base stats. So give ships ten times the hull and shields that they have now. It's the same basic idea of diminishing the all importance of stacking poorly balanced skills.

Want to reduce the likelihood of being instapopped or running into invincible zombies? Don't like "one shot kills" and yo-yo hull healing? Bring all abilities in the game back down to a reasonable level. Work out smarter mechanics for stacking items and skills. This would make the game more accessible for new players and add extra tactical dimensions for more skilled players.

There is a reason Commander and Captain level PvP were so much fun and it's largely related to the less twitchy game play. Call me crazy but we don't need this game to continue down this path of inaccessibility. The skill gap between players themselves is vast enough. Continuing to pile on more and more vastly over powered abilities is only going to further hurt the player base.

The game is too spammy. Abilities are too strong. There is a tremendous difference between a buffed ship and an unbuffed ship. Abilities should add dimensions to combat, not break it.

Well yah. Unbuffed ships die quick violent deaths. And I'm just fine with that. Even baseline abilities that everyone has access to should be sufficient to stop such a thing from happening to oneself. And really right now I'm not sure that that is true. From a purely tactical attack it is fairly simple to make yourself well defended. Staggeringly simple. As has been pointed out to me repeatedly. What isn't so easy is to make yourself strong against the broken flavors of abilities and doff combos.

Buffed and unbuffed, HUGE difference, easily changed. Mostly by....

No knowledge and some knowledge of pvp, HUGE difference. Easy to convert one to the other.

Borked abilities and items, just not getting around that.

So if they just did as you suggest, it may not change the outcome, it may just make it take longer. And maybe that's a good thing.

Now if you were suggesting the end of quirky doff stacking to gain neverending evasives or TT or blah blah blah. Or five tac consoles ships for the lucky few, or something that the 95% (yup im making that number up) of players will never reasonably have, I'm all for it.
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,623
# 7
11-17-2012, 12:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehale View Post
Abilities should add dimensions to combat, not break it.
I've never quite been happy with the way BOFF abilities are setup in STO. They feel off - handled in a manner I do not consider to be logical in the least. The connection between the BOFFs and the stations is far too simplified in my opinion. They need to be separated.

Say what?

Let's look at a BOFF and let's look at a Station. The BOFF should have a Rank. The Station should have a Tech Level.

Say we have a Commander Tac BOFF - I'll give him some random abilities for what I'm trying to say (they're not thought out, etc): APD3, DPB2, THY2, and TT1. This Tac BOFF's best ability is APD - it's what they've specialized in.

Now let's put that Tac BOFF in a ship. I'll drop him in a Steamrunner - and - I'll drop him in that Commander Tac BOFF slot.

That's fine, eh? That's what we've got now.

Okay, but what if I drop him in a Lt Tac Slot on a Dreadnought? Well, he can only use THY2 and TT1. Sure, he's specialized in APD and subspec'd DPB - but he can't use them.

Logically, if he knows APD3 - he knows APD2 and he knows APD1. If he knows DPB2 then he knows DPB1. But that's not the way it works in the game.

Now if the stations were based on a tech level rather than rank level - we'd have TL1, TL2, TL3, TL4. The BOFF Rank abilities would still be connected. You would need a TL4 Tac Station to run APD3. You could not run APD3 in a TL3, TL2, nor TL1 station.

What you could do though with that Tac BOFF is the following though:

TL4 Station: APD3, DPB2, THY2, TT1
TL3 Station: APD2, DPB2, THY2, TT1
TL2 Station: APD1, DPB1, THY2, TT1
TL1 Station: THY1, TT1

With both APD and DPB requiring a min TL2 station - they could not be used in a TL1 slot.

You could have a max of 3 abilities in a TL1 station with either a LCdr or Cmdr BOFF (the Commander's Cmdr rank ability - their best ability would only be available at TL2 or higher depending on what it is). Further - depending on how you build that BOFF, you might only have a single ability in that TL1 station.

Logically though, if the guy knows Ability X3 - they should know X2 and X1.

Just something I've expressed before in regard to how abilities should add dimensions to play in space...
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 434
# 8
11-18-2012, 01:09 PM
I'm certainly not naive enough to think that this is the perfect solution. Anything worth doing is going to take some serious thought and effort. But it would go a long way towards helping make PvP more accessible to the masses without dumbing it down for the more strategic or hardcore players.
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 534
# 9
11-18-2012, 01:18 PM
OP, where are the invincible zombies that you speak of? Sounds neat.
1hr of work @NYS Min Wage 7.25 = 725 Zen
725 x 102 (or current exchange rate) DL = 73950 DL <- can you earn that per hour in game?

Join Date: Sep 2009 - I want my changeling lava lamp!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 10
11-18-2012, 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehale View Post
Oh I know, nerf is such a bad word. I suppose the alternative would be to boost the hell out of unbuffed base stats. So give ships ten times the hull and shields that they have now. It's the same basic idea of diminishing the all importance of stacking poorly balanced skills.

Want to reduce the likelihood of being instapopped or running into invincible zombies? Don't like "one shot kills" and yo-yo hull healing? Bring all abilities in the game back down to a reasonable level. Work out smarter mechanics for stacking items and skills. This would make the game more accessible for new players and add extra tactical dimensions for more skilled players.

There is a reason Commander and Captain level PvP were so much fun and it's largely related to the less twitchy game play. Call me crazy but we don't need this game to continue down this path of inaccessibility. The skill gap between players themselves is vast enough. Continuing to pile on more and more vastly over powered abilities is only going to further hurt the player base.

The game is too spammy. Abilities are too strong. There is a tremendous difference between a buffed ship and an unbuffed ship. Abilities should add dimensions to combat, not break it.
If you nerf EVERYthing from 10 to 1, there is zero change. lol
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