Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 689
# 11
11-16-2012, 09:34 AM
Originally Posted by aelfwin1 View Post
Really ? You don't ?? Or did I just missed the /sarcasm@ ?

Because , some (quite many actually) are still struggling with the likes of 200.000 Dil for a set of curtains or a Morn Hologram .
No sarcasm. I'm aware of the special decorative projects and whatnot, but (and I highlighted the special word there) those were already here. All the other projects? Fleet weapons? Already here. With Dilithium no longer required in leveling the reputation system, as it was on Tribble, there really aren't any new dilithium sinks being imposed on players just yet. At least, not in the first week, not until they hit that first tier and start unlocking stuff in the reputation store.


Oh wait.


Still wouldn't have pegged those for that big a drop, though. In combination with the new vanity project, maybe. But then I'd have expected the Vesta, paired with the removal of the clickies, to pull the whole thing in the other direction. Could be the early season influx of (usually temporarily) returning players spending leftover or newly bought zen, I suppose.

Last edited by hrisvalar; 11-16-2012 at 09:37 AM.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,612
# 12
11-16-2012, 09:46 AM
Originally Posted by hrisvalar View Post
All the other projects? Fleet weapons? Already here.
For you or for me maybe , but for the majority ?
Are you under the impression that Tier 3-4 Starbases are where the majority of players are at ?
I am losing STO with each new system based update and with each removal and editing of content .
I don't know how to save her from her systems obsessed masters who seek to control and monetize me more and more .

Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,389
# 13
11-16-2012, 09:57 AM
Originally Posted by spectographic View Post
Sounds interesting.
Mind me asking two things:

1) Is buying Zen more attractive, if you get more or less Dilithium for it?

2) Does the Zen cost more if there is more or less Dilithium?

I can never get to figure this one out
I myself am a Free-to-play guy, but I got a few of my friends to play and pay... The idea of my previous speaker sounds worth a look. Just saying.


PS: Fun is obligatory!
The whole Dilithium bottleneck that Cryptic has created is expected to work two fold for them.

The 1st part was to greatly hinder the amount of free Dilithium that we able to grind out by lowering the payout and forcing us all to invest more time to get the amounts of Dilithium Ore that we were use to bring in.

The 2nd part is what their hoping will be a byproduct of the of the 1st part
Hinder the amount of Dilithium that can enter the market via free game play, drive up the demand for in-game Dilithium so that players that are willing to buy Zen to convert to Dilithium will have to buy twice has much Zen to get the amounts of Dilithium that they need.

Cryptic has succeeded in making the free grind to get Dilithium so unappealing that the players and fleets that are trying to race to the top and get the new shinies and the next level of their Star bases that they?ll see dropping $10-50 in Zen has a small price to pay to get the Dilithium they?ll need to reach their goals.

The nerfing of Dilithium payouts also puts the screws to the systematic alters out there that knew how to use their time and many alts to rake in has much free Dilithium has possible.

These changes won?t end here and has soon has the players start to figure out the best way to maximize their Dilithium grinding time under this new system I?m sure it will be adjusted again.

I can?t fault Cryptic for trying to make the most money possible from the STO player base; however, I can fault them for the tactics that they use.

Yay Dilithum powered Star Bases!

Yay Dilithum powered Romulan Home World!

Yay new Doff packs that we need to pay $ or convert Dilithium for just to get Doffs to pour into our Star bases!

Yay a new loot system for STF gear and now instead of chance we know it will only take us about 8-10 months to get all the equipment that we need!

Yay no new story line progressing missions in almost 2 years! (that is a good thing right?)

Yay the game that I once loved playing has turned into a 2nd job!

All joking aside, I?ve not actively played STO in over 8 months and I generally just long in once a month to update files.

I saw the eternal STO grind coming a while back and I wanted no part of it; however for some stupid reason I continue to hold out that someday I?ll log in to STO and find a reason to want to play it again.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,295
# 14
11-16-2012, 11:26 AM
We can have lots of dil in one place (FAs) or some dil in lots of places. Dunno about others, but I prefer the latter. They aren't going to give us both.
Empire Veteran
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Posts: 1,389
# 15
11-16-2012, 11:42 AM
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
We can have lots of dil in one place (FAs) or some dil in lots of places. Dunno about others, but I prefer the latter. They aren't going to give us both.
You?ll have to forgive me if I?m wrong has I?ve yet to play any of the FA that give out Dilithium but did they not just greatly reduce the amount of Dilithium that you could get from FA when they returned the Dilithium payouts to the STF missions?

I?ve come across a few forum post that have stated that the Dilithium amounts that the FA were paying out a few days ago were reduced when the Dilithium was returned to the STF?s
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 73
# 16
11-16-2012, 12:08 PM
I really like Aelfwin.

First of all this is a great player. Secondly this is a player thats been around the game and knows what is going on. Aelfwin and I share membership in a fleet together though its not one of great priority for either of us.

My mother used to have a saying, "Quit telling me the truth when my minds made up."

Aelfwin and I are probably fighting losing battles here. Cryptics mind is made up and they want us to have less dilithium and they want to charge more for things that need it.

Sure, we are looking at season 5 prices based on season 7 supplies when we make these predictions and they do not look good to us. Removing clickers destroys the supply of dilithium in the game and the rest takes it down more.

It hasnt impacted us yet but things like having Morn at the Bar are going to be seen as more superflous. My predictions about sucky 7 have always been that it undermines season 6 and sticks a knife in its gut. Clickers not only gave dilithium but also fleet marks. Despite these niceties not many fleets are to level 3 or beyond and thats when it really starts getting hard. Fleet progression for large fleets will slow substantially and for smaller fleets it will grind to a screeching halt. The days of people thinking they could form a small fleet and progress with 12-15 friends are probably over and done unless one buys lots of zen.

You know, it would be wise to listen to what Aelfwin is saying here. Sucky 7 would be less bad if it didnt undermine and destroy what was accomplished in seasons 5 and 6. This is a cake and eat it thread. You cant have your cake and eat it too. Well you cant remove access to dilithium from the player base and expect them to craft, show fleet progression, buy zen points, and do the other things that make it fun for them.

Aelfwin is right. Darn good player also.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 867
# 17
11-16-2012, 01:01 PM
Just a heads up on the whole dilithium worry, Dan Stahl said in the Red Alert chat (among other interesting things) that they are continuing to gather data on where things are with the rates of dilithium. It seems the rate at people are collecting dilthium is going up.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 689
# 18
11-16-2012, 01:29 PM
Originally Posted by aelfwin1 View Post
For you or for me maybe , but for the majority ?
Are you under the impression that Tier 3-4 Starbases are where the majority of players are at ?
Again, no. The projects were there. The system was there. I did not say anything about whatever measure of progress in it I, or anyone else, may or may not have already achieved. All I am saying is that we can hardly point to a system, that existed before, in the exactly the same form in which it exists now, as an explanation for the dilithium exchange taking a sudden dive. The cause has to be something else. Even the new addition of the embassies only account for some 22,500 (if I recall correctly) extra dilithium being required, per day, per fleet.

So with really not that many new sinks, and the fact that along with the release of a new ship, zen should've been getting more expensive on the dilithium exchange, not cheaper as it's done. If it's not a large enough new sink, then it has to be either an abundance of zen, or a shortage of dilithium.

Originally Posted by bugshu
I really like Aelfwin.
Then be a good friend, and confront his english teacher. He's reading between the lines too much.

All kidding aside, the clickers had to go sooner or later. And I don't miss them. Not although, but because I used them intensively. I have thirteen alts. Making the trip to those consoles repetively became something of a very boring (if self-imposed) job. Now I can't do that to myself anymore. (Though I do think they should've reduced the mission requirement on the wrapper to compensate somewhat at least.) The downside is though that I also no longer make the token bits of dilithium from the Doff system and the academy lore mission that I picked up along with it, on the five or six alts that I'll probably no longer be checking more than once a week now. I'm not overly bothered with it, but...

That may be where Cryptic's metrics fail them. If the average amount of dilithium per active character has gone up, on day one of a new season, when people are more inclined to stick to a main or two and remain online for a longer period than they usually would, that's a meaningless statistic. It doesn't reflect the situation as it would be once things have settled down, and it doesn't take into account characters that don't log in anymore, that previously collected dilithium and then pooled it on the mains or sold it for Zen.

So on day one, they may very well have seen a significant boost in the amount of dilithium earned per character that logged in that day, but what they should be watching instead is the dilithium earned per account. That may show that the new way was and may remain to be a good thing for single or two-character largely F2P players, but there is probably significant portion of the playerbase taking a hit.

And whether group A's surplus cancels out group B's loss... the exchange seems to say that it doesn't.

Last edited by hrisvalar; 11-16-2012 at 01:34 PM.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 636
# 19
11-16-2012, 01:47 PM
Cryptic caused the current Dilithium influx by handling the conversion so bad.

If the conversion chart was published upfront, full details given, and fair conversion.

Most of the STF players would not have cashed in there stuff for very large amounts of Dilithium.

The entire conversion was handled in a bad way, I?m sure there are people who do not read the forums.

I?m sure the non-forum readers are a little hurt to find out STF loot worth 200-500k is now worth 16k of Dilithium.

Was the conversion agenda to take Dilithium out of the market and to say Marks and BNP are better..
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 719
# 20
11-16-2012, 04:15 PM
In my case, I may well be refining more Dilithium that usual for the last day or so. However, this is because I'm spending all my allotted time grinding for it, and none of that time being able to play the game modes I enjoy. For me to have any hope of progressing through the game I have to grind endless amounts of Dilithium, and pour it all immediately into projects. This is why Cryptic have got to stop looking at spreadsheets so much and start listening to players.

Heck, I've even gone back to that awful Dilithium Mining mini game in an attempt to bring in as much as I used to when I could play for my enjoyment, rather than as a daily chore. That's how bad things have got for me.

This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!

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