Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,744
# 31
11-17-2012, 01:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaalom View Post
For those saying this new system is better, and they grinded the old system and got nothing your full of it. I ran the stfs prior to season 7 for 3 days on my max Fed and Klingon. I was able to get the borg sets with ease, and I was able to pick up 2 MKXII weapon items on my klingon. To top it off I was able to get my Klingon a MKXII Honor Guard shield for my ship. I am sure I got blessed on this but the fact is if you looked at the old vendors you could turn in 40 of the old item to get a new item without having the salvage . The old system was way better.
-------------

I agree the old system was totally superior to
This monster
Jellico....Engineer.....Stargazer KDF Tac
Saphire.. Science.....Ko'el Rom Kdf Tac
Leva........Tactical.....Mailu KDF Sci

JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 45
# 32
11-17-2012, 01:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsharpex View Post
bare minimum amount of time to unlock the necessities per character:

tier 0-5:
100,000 xp /2800 xp per project cycle = 31.7 project cycles
31.7 project cycles * 40 hours per project cycle = 1428.6 hours

mk xii pulsewave: 40 hours
mk xii split beam: 40 hours

mk xii armor: 40 hours
mk xii weapon: 40 hours
mk xii psg: 40 hours

mk xii deflector: 40 hours
mk xii engine: 40 hours
mk xii shield: 40 hours

@ 2 projects per cycle, total time = 320 hours/2 = 160 hours

add 120 hours for the new set of assimilated console, cutting beam and omega torpedo
add 120 hours for the 2nd set
add 120 hours for the adapted set
add 160 hours for all the costume unlocks

@ 2 projects per cycle, total time = 520 hours/2 = 260 hours

+5 hours, 1 for each tier unlock

total time: 1853.6 hours or 77.23 days per every brand spanking new toon.

that's just the waiting time too! insane, no?

the best part? after all this farming, what are you going to do with your new found sets after waiting all this time? more farming. LOL... oh the irony. all the while, picking up the slack of all of those around you who haven't completed the same grind. If you thought public queues and some private games were bad? Just wait until you have all these new, completely under geared guys trying to participate.

Solid math, and you can't argue with numbers! This is just wrong, pre-patch I was able to outfit a new character mk XII STF set (no weapons) in about 2 weeks.

As for the omega skills, I was under the assumption that you could change skills. But if you wanted to switch the skill, you'd have to re-upgrade them in the slot and have to pay for it. But if it's permanent, and no respec? Yikes!
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,719
# 33
11-17-2012, 01:24 AM
Totally ureasonable you have to spend 58 days unlocking items there were already in the game.

For me I am just gating characters and not playing. I might need some dilithium in 2 months from now should I decide on getting an item, assuming I haven't quit by then.

Leaves me with very little to do which I don't think was the intention of the rep system.

Bad choice locking recycled content up and removing the one thing that actually worked, stf.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 262
# 34
11-17-2012, 01:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vestereng View Post
Totally ureasonable you have to spend 58 days unlocking items there were already in the game.

For me I am just gating characters and not playing. I might need some dilithium in 2 months from now should I decide on getting an item, assuming I haven't quit by then.

Leaves me with very little to do which I don't think was the intention of the rep system.

Bad choice locking recycled content up and removing the one thing that actually worked, stf.
Unfortunately the 58 days or so is just to get from tier 0 to tier 5. The only thing that is included during that time are the 4 passive and 1 active skill. the items require a separate unlock as described above =(
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,155
# 35
11-17-2012, 01:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaalom View Post
...but the fact is if you looked at the old vendors you could turn in 40 of the old item to get a new item without having the salvage . The old system was way better.
/and this.
ok, mkxii gear was hard to earn (well, it's mkxii). but we already had the opportunity to change in our edc for (competitve) mkxi sets.
i ran stf's over the whole year, f.e. without getting a single mkxii psg tech-drop. but in that time i farmed enough edc for outfitting 4 boffs with maco/omega, plus 2 sets for myself, and maco and omega stuff for 17 ships(!). and now have on every single ship at least a 2-piece-bonus running (15 out of 17 with 2piece maco/omega + 1 borgpart).
on top was the dil i made off those times. only while i farmed for my 4 boff sets: 'bout 200k dil!.
so i ran several gstf's and never really felt the need for that final mkii tech-drop. only for my collection, performance was more than enough with easily obtainable mkxi sets.

Klink: House of Beautiful - J'Luc/Rom: Lag Industries - D'Waste/Fed-Sci: Lag Industries - IAM
Join Date Hoster: Dec 2011 - Join Date Symbiont: 1403 A.D. and not a dull moment
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 236
# 36
11-17-2012, 01:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaalom View Post
For those saying this new system is better, and they grinded the old system and got nothing your full of it. I ran the stfs prior to season 7 for 3 days on my max Fed and Klingon. I was able to get the borg sets with ease, and I was able to pick up 2 MKXII weapon items on my klingon. To top it off I was able to get my Klingon a MKXII Honor Guard shield for my ship. I am sure I got blessed on this but the fact is if you looked at the old vendors you could turn in 40 of the old item to get a new item without having the salvage . The old system was way better.
You guys are pretty lucky with drops. I've played cure ground for a long time before i could get the proto weapon drop. Not counting the failed missions, stupid PUGs not cooperating, etc.

Sure you can say that you got the stuff easy because you got the correct crowd to play with (Elite STF channel for example). But for the average player, they probably don't even know this channel exist.

Moreover, you need to run every single STF to get the respective drops. Now, the average player, could just do the STF he finds easy enough and still reach the final destination.

What I'm saying is that this new system is preferable to the old random drop system where effort is not equal to reward put in due to randomness of the drops. Now, despite its long and tiring grind, at least its guaranteed result.

I do agree that the new system needs rethinking on the timescale required to unlock and the resources needed for the projects, which is very steep at the moment. But its not necessarily worse than previous random system.

Ensure when posting, you consider the average player's plight who probably has a job, a family and can't spend his entire life decking out all his alts and their respective boffs with Mk12 gear.

With the new system, the average player can log in, play a couple of STFs or Romulan Marks mission he likes and still earn the gear. Last time, you need to literally wait for Vault event to get reman datalogs (I personally set reminders on my Blackberry on vault event timings and I remember once playing vault event on my laptop at Japan Narita Airport on my connecting flight to US - nearly missed my flight!), then do countless failed attempts at Infected Ground, Cure Ground, Cure Space.. and when occassionally you manage to get the quest completed.. you get 2 EDCs, some random blue item and a lockbox.. rinse and repeat..tell me which is better?

So in short, the idea of reputation system is good, the thing needs reworking is the timescale and resources needed for it. Reduce them somewhat and you'll have a really good system in place.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 236
# 37
11-17-2012, 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by avarseir View Post
So in short, the idea of reputation system is good, the thing needs reworking is the timescale and resources needed for it. Reduce them somewhat and you'll have a really good system in place.
I can't emphasize this more.. what the community should work towards is to get the requirements for the unlocks reduced rather than asking for old system back.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,719
# 38
11-17-2012, 01:47 AM
True you need to spend another 40 hours per each item in addition to the 58 days of permission unlock.

The whole we are helping the casuals argument is invalid, htf can it be our problem you don't have time to play.

So the whole damned server has to wait for you to spend quality time with your wife watching survivor until we can play and get all our items locked up because you gave up on ground missions.

Royally to hell with that, if you don't have time to play be gone. Everyone who is actively supporting the "well I can get my sets new!" are actively sabotaging this game
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 688
# 39
11-17-2012, 01:55 AM
So it basically comes down to the Elite Special Task Force, "We're better than you" attitude. This is pretty much why I have yet to attempt a single STF, the attitude of the hard core players towards the more casual ones is downright hostile. The new Rep system is actually tempting me, because I can actually progress without having to play STF after STF over and over again. However, it will take a big push for me to take the time and effort to learn the STFs, rather than earn Dilithium or Fleet/Romulan Marks, because I don't really see the STFs as a lot of fun, almost entirely because of the players.

This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 262
# 40
11-17-2012, 01:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by avarseir View Post
You guys are pretty lucky with drops. I've played cure ground for a long time before i could get the proto weapon drop. Not counting the failed missions, stupid PUGs not cooperating, etc.

Sure you can say that you got the stuff easy because you got the correct crowd to play with (Elite STF channel for example). But for the average player, they probably don't even know this channel exist.

Moreover, you need to run every single STF to get the respective drops. Now, the average player, could just do the STF he finds easy enough and still reach the final destination.

What I'm saying is that this new system is preferable to the old random drop system where effort is not equal to reward put in due to randomness of the drops. Now, despite its long and tiring grind, at least its guaranteed result.

I do agree that the new system needs rethinking on the timescale required to unlock and the resources needed for the projects, which is very steep at the moment. But its not necessarily worse than previous random system.

Ensure when posting, you consider the average player's plight who probably has a job, a family and can't spend his entire life decking out all his alts and their respective boffs with Mk12 gear.

With the new system, the average player can log in, play a couple of STFs or Romulan Marks mission he likes and still earn the gear. Last time, you need to literally wait for Vault event to get reman datalogs (I personally set reminders on my Blackberry on vault event timings and I remember once playing vault event on my laptop at Japan Narita Airport on my connecting flight to US - nearly missed my flight!), then do countless failed attempts at Infected Ground, Cure Ground, Cure Space.. and when occassionally you manage to get the quest completed.. you get 2 EDCs, some random blue item and a lockbox.. rinse and repeat..tell me which is better?

So in short, the idea of reputation system is good, the thing needs reworking is the timescale and resources needed for it. Reduce them somewhat and you'll have a really good system in place.
if your overall concern is for the average player, then consider the following. how is the average player supposed to remain competitive without these luck drops? ensuring that they are forced to grind stfs to make tier 1 and then wait an additional 201 hours so they can have the bare minimum stf sets for ground and space, just so they can be somewhat competitive and not an absolute burden on whatever team they join. how is that fair for them? do you really think that these people are going to stay in the normal queues for the entire length? if you think the quality of the games now are bad, just wait until more and more of these guys show up to work the system, either for the first time or for their alts.

luck is luck. sometimes, you win, sometimes you lose. but all in all, you still had a chance. even if that proto tech didn't drop for you, chances are you got enough proto salvage for your ship's weapons and edc to buy your mk xi set gear. either way, it was still progress. sure, you didn't progress towards the mk xii set gear you wanted... but you still had a fighting shot at being competitive with others. now, after all these changes, how competitive will the average, new player be?

but then again, some of you will like this system regardless. for others, it'll be a constant reminder of something they will never achieve. if you're constantly blowing up and not putting out as much dps as your team would want and they start tearing into you for being a noob or for wrecking their run, how motivated would you be to continue? how motivated would the average player be? how motivated would they be to continue playing the game at all?

my 2 cents. this is not an attack directed at you, but merely a rebuttal towards the argument you make. i have nothing against you personally and this is my disclaimer.
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