Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 51
11-17-2012, 03:24 AM
I like it. It's a similar concept to Eve's long term character development, and Eve has some of the best player retention in the MMO market. You'll really be able to build on a character in the long-term with these reputation passives; as opposed to characters not having changed in the last 2 years.

I always thought the rate at which you could get "best in slot" gear was comically fast. Hell, it only took 1-2 days of hard grinding and you could have Mark XII borg stuff in every slot. It was a bit much, especially for a f2p game. It also killed the exchange economy at the Mk X-XII levels; since XII and Set pieces were so easy to come by.

I think people will get used to the fact that entry level gear at cap is now going to be Mark X or XI stuff. That's the way it should have been in the first place, and it shouldn't be that big of an issue for anyone, the difference is not in performance between a set of X gear and a set of XI or XII gear is pretty marginal.
Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6
# 52
11-17-2012, 03:29 AM
I was actually having fun doing stf's prior to season 7. You got the EDC's, you could save up to get MK XI M.A.C.O./KHG or OMEGA gear. For me, the new system you have to start all over again.

Season 7 killed the fun in stf's especially ground stf's. Now I only bother to do space stf's. Yes there are the accolades for ground, but won't bother with these, since. Well you know. Ground stf dead.

And 40 hours + costs just to get one piece of gear, is it either ground or space. No. It is only a couple a weeks ago I bought a LTS. I regret it. If I knew how much they would change (yes I could had gone on tribble and looked for myself) but I have faith in the devs. thinking they know what they are doing and can have foresight to see what the community wants and change that accordingly.

Coming from EVE Online, I got fed up looking at timers. With the new Omega reputation system, well timers, hello there.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 236
# 53
11-17-2012, 03:30 AM
Originally Posted by xsharpex View Post
if your overall concern is for the average player, then consider the following. how is the average player supposed to remain competitive without these luck drops? ensuring that they are forced to grind stfs to make tier 1 and then wait an additional 201 hours so they can have the bare minimum stf sets for ground and space, just so they can be somewhat competitive and not an absolute burden on whatever team they join. how is that fair for them? do you really think that these people are going to stay in the normal queues for the entire length? if you think the quality of the games now are bad, just wait until more and more of these guys show up to work the system, either for the first time or for their alts.

luck is luck. sometimes, you win, sometimes you lose. but all in all, you still had a chance. even if that proto tech didn't drop for you, chances are you got enough proto salvage for your ship's weapons and edc to buy your mk xi set gear. either way, it was still progress. sure, you didn't progress towards the mk xii set gear you wanted... but you still had a fighting shot at being competitive with others. now, after all these changes, how competitive will the average, new player be?

but then again, some of you will like this system regardless. for others, it'll be a constant reminder of something they will never achieve. if you're constantly blowing up and not putting out as much dps as your team would want and they start tearing into you for being a noob or for wrecking their run, how motivated would you be to continue? how motivated would the average player be? how motivated would they be to continue playing the game at all?

my 2 cents. this is not an attack directed at you, but merely a rebuttal towards the argument you make. i have nothing against you personally and this is my disclaimer.
Valid argument there on luck, but lets consider if there're no drops at all for common tech, it still takes 60 normal STF runs to get your full mkX ground set. Which probably works out to be longer than the current system.. unless you do the STFs consecutively and just STF after STF. Plus, if you're a new player.. you have no business in Elite STFs right? You don't get blown up that easily in Normal STF if you know whats going on.

Lets see.. 60 STFs = 1800 marks (30 Marks per STF). You don't need that many marks to unlock all the MkX gear right? Plus 10.5K dils which you can earn other way and some token items like generators, shield charges, easily obtained from vendors.

If you include the time taken to run the 60 STFs, everything can be quite tiring.. now you can load the project, go to sleep or watch survivor with your wife, play hide and seek with your children, checking your investment portfolio, go to the gym, play some golf then come back with your gear completed. That's for the average player.

IF you're hardcore.. and you haven't gotten your Mk12 gear for all your alts and boffs by now, i'd say you're not hardcore enough

My argument remains: New system is good, but the requirements (both time and resources) are steep.. reduce that by say 30% and you have a nice system in place.

**I'm off to catch a connecting flight to London, so I may not reply for sometime. Be nice guys

Last edited by avarseir; 11-17-2012 at 03:32 AM.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 24
# 54
11-17-2012, 03:39 AM
Originally Posted by avarseir View Post
Notice that my argument is: "Playing STF he likes"
This still leaves the Problem. In my experience most people will play space as it gives them what they need with much less effort and time. New people will might try out ground for once, but with longer queue times and longer play times per match with the same rewards, they simply wont bother doing them often (or at all).

PS: I know this is just speculation, but it wouldn't surprise me if it comes to this...
... in some ways, you're even worse than the Borg. At least they tell you about their plans for assimilation. You're more insidious, you assimilate people - and they don't even know it. - Michael Eddington
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,149
# 55
11-17-2012, 03:41 AM
Not really.

You still need 90 dilithium for the MK X ground set, that's 90 missions sir

At if you had done that under the old system you had have the set PLUS 90 dil (and item drops).

So, you are not just losing the 90 k dil you would have earned along the way, you are also losing the price of the item.

So say goodbye to 190,000 dil under the new regime


ps. that's 190 k LOST under the new regime ofc

Last edited by vestereng; 11-17-2012 at 03:50 AM.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 56
11-17-2012, 03:53 AM
[quote=xantris;6645491]I like it. It's a similar concept to Eve's long term character development, and Eve has some of the best player retention in the MMO market. You'll really be able to build on a character in the long-term with these reputation passives; as opposed to characters not having changed in the last 2 years.


since you brought it up,

eve also has great PVP.

this game does not, and pvp keeps getting backhanded.
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-
Do you even Science Bro?
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,600
# 57
11-17-2012, 03:59 AM
My problem is I struggle to see the point in getting the gear at all.

By the end of all the tiers, all the unlocks and all the purchases I'll bet you'd be pretty sick of STF's and any other 'end game' content too. All the gear is letting you do is run through them faster.

It just feels like such a minimal payout for all that time invested, not to mention the ec and dil you'd be draining into them (on top of fleet projects, and embassy projects...AND Romulan reputation projects).

I don't NEED this gear to run through normal STF's, elite doesn't interest me since they are exactly the same missions only harder and all you get for it is a few more marks and a processor - whoopdie doo.

I may try to get to mkxi gear, I'm not even sure I have the patience for that.

Side note. I predict that soon you will be able to buy MACO, Borg or Omega gear in the Zen store for those who don't want to wait for projects - calling it now.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 605
# 58
11-17-2012, 04:03 AM
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
system's actually a kick in the balls to CASUAL players, the old system was BETTER for casuals-even if you could not manage the MkXII sets (myself in case of point), you COULD manage, wihtout spending a full work-day grinding, MkXI sets on a pretty regular basis, and the 3 non-console bits from Assimilated were fairly readily available (yes, I actually DID run Borg Shields and no console-it was still better than most of the crap on the Exchange and cost less at the time than less-capable dilith. gear.)

Comparable time investment (not to mention materiel investment, including things that cost EDC or were actively useful IN the STFs, like regenerators, large hypo, etc.) was significantly less, even WITHOUT drops.

This Rep system ONLY works if your whole universe revolves around playing STO from the time you get up, until you finally MUST sleep.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Random drops in the old system meant people like my dad (Who works 7-5) could never get his ship up to par with mine, (Even mx xi , 40edc's took him ages).

However, with the new reputation system. All he needs to do is around 1 elite STF a week, that's 75 omega marks which is enough for 3-4 Omega force projects. And i don't really see how its" from the time you get up, untill you finally must sleep" you don't have to watch the timer you know? You can just leave it run?

IMO, the new system is much more freindly to casuals than the old one. Untill they unlock the store. Once the hugely inflated Dilithum prices are removed/reduced then my statement will be completely true.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 59
11-17-2012, 04:07 AM
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
I like it. It's a similar concept to Eve's long term character development, and Eve has some of the best player retention in the MMO market. You'll really be able to build on a character in the long-term with these reputation passives; as opposed to characters not having changed in the last 2 years.


since you brought it up,

eve also has great PVP.

this game does not, and pvp keeps getting backhanded.
Eve's PvP is fantastic if you have 4 hours to find a fight.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,656
# 60
11-17-2012, 04:09 AM
After running Elite STFs since the day they started, and never with a pug, always with EliteSTF channel, friends or fleet mates I got 1 full Mk XII OMEGA ground set, all the Mk XII space sets and MACO Mk XI ground sets on all my toons. I never got the Mk XII MACO ground set which I always wanted. About 4 months ago i gave up STFs completely. Over 700 runs and 1 lousy Mk XII ground set, I was sick to death of them.

I don't mind waiting and I'm not going to grind these rep systems, just do what I feel like when I feel like it and I know that eventually I will develop my characters in many ways and yes finally will get the full Mk XII gear I have coveted for so long. I'm in no hurry, whereas it sounds like many of the people complaining here want it all and want it all quickly. What will you do then? Complain there's nothing to do until the next season update?

Playing an MMO like STO requires a different mindset, it requires you being in it for the long haul, sure you can grind like crazy but even here the DEVs have but in place timers to slow you down so you don't get burnt out too quickly.

Also the system is brand new, we know they listen to feedback, they have made many changes to the Starbase system since launch, give it time and stop trying to have everything on a plate hand delivered by express courier.

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