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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,120
# 11
11-17-2012, 06:27 AM
Some people just don't get what engine power does for your ships defence or how emergency power cycling works.....
Man is a gaming animal. He must always be trying to get the better in something or other.
Warning, this poster tends to talk nonsensically when caffine levels fall below 80%.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 387
# 12
11-17-2012, 06:50 AM
Plasma Fire eh? Let me see what I can help you with.

The Vesta can equip cannons. Take advantage of that and swap your chronitons for quantum launchers. Dual cannons fire more often than Dual Heavy cannons, but they do less damage than their heavier counterparts. Also, put turrets on your aft slots.

Next you will need hazard emitters. That will clear your plasma problem right up. After that, your consoles need upgrading. Neutronium to blue, shield emitters to blue, but you really only need one. Might I suggest a Field Generator console instead?

As for your boffs, Torpedo High Yield works better than Torpedo Spread. MacDonald should have Emergency Power to Shields instead of Emergency Power to Weapons. 2 copies help.

A blue Phaser Relay console is relatively cheap, so you might want to replace that.


Other than that you should be okay.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 590
# 13
11-17-2012, 06:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wast33 View Post
you can dismiss your aventine and re-claim it 2 times (make sure all your gear is off-board on dismiss), to get another 2 aux-guns.

suggestion for weapons:
swap out that front torp.
also those tac-consoles should all be blue-mkxi-phaser-relays. last (referring to weapons) is: pack 2 phaser turrets in the rear (if you want that torp to stay, let it in. better pick a minelauncher) and run your powerlevels with full aux.

other suggestions:
(already was mentioned: ) hazard ermitters, transfer shield strength
2 tac-teams (or 1, buffed by 2 purple con-doffs)
...Did not know i could do that either O.o

And i'll do some STF runs with your reccomended layout, and see how it preformsthanks!


Also, here is my Specs. Don't grill me, when i started thet game i didn't even read the tooltips...

http://i.imgur.com/E9Pdp.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Mmhgx.jpg
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 590
# 14
11-17-2012, 07:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by asardetemplari View Post
Plasma Fire eh? Let me see what I can help you with.

The Vesta can equip cannons. Take advantage of that and swap your chronitons for quantum launchers. Dual cannons fire more often than Dual Heavy cannons, but they do less damage than their heavier counterparts. Also, put turrets on your aft slots.

Next you will need hazard emitters. That will clear your plasma problem right up. After that, your consoles need upgrading. Neutronium to blue, shield emitters to blue, but you really only need one. Might I suggest a Field Generator console instead?

As for your boffs, Torpedo High Yield works better than Torpedo Spread. MacDonald should have Emergency Power to Shields instead of Emergency Power to Weapons. 2 copies help.

A blue Phaser Relay console is relatively cheap, so you might want to replace that.


Other than that you should be okay.
Ok, i'll give that ago too. Blue consoles are normally expensive, espcially armour ones :/ And i need the little EC im bringing in for reputation projects. But i'll retrain my BOFFS, and get a field generator also
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,155
# 15
11-17-2012, 08:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by latiasracer View Post
...Did not know i could do that either O.o

And i'll do some STF runs with your reccomended layout, and see how it preformsthanks!


Also, here is my Specs. Don't grill me, when i started thet game i didn't even read the tooltips...

http://i.imgur.com/E9Pdp.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Mmhgx.jpg
i have no experience in speccing an eng, so advice may come from another side. but here are some respec suggestions:
-focus on only 1 dmg-type, kinetic or energy
-don't put points in threat control
-guess there's no real benefit in combat from drivercoil and batteries (just use the large ones ;i mostly only use engine-ones ^^)
(-subsystem repair? dunno if this could made by haz-emm f.e.)

--> free point put in hullspecs, shieldspecs and things like power insulators and grav gens

may others got better suggestions

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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,969
# 16
11-17-2012, 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by defalus View Post
Actually you do need engine power, speed = defense = more chance your enemy will miss you, low engine power lowers your defence so you'll be more prone to being hit by critical hits too. As for shield power if you carry two emg pwr to shields buffs you can cycle them back to back for permanent up time which offers power and resistance at the same time.

You need to decide if you want beams or cannons, you're only packing one DHC so that cannon rapid fire is imo wasted, speaking if that DHC can you fit 2 or 3 of the aux powered DHC on one ship?

Also posting a screenie of your skill set up or writing out your skills so we can see what you have would help people give better suggestions, no point me saying attack patterns if you're not specced for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by defalus View Post
Some people just don't get what engine power does for your ships defence or how emergency power cycling works.....
I'm afraid you are mistaken. Above a certain threshold, speed has no effect whatsoever on your defense rating.

And you can't avoid such issues by using, idk, Combat Impulse Engines.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
And I don't pretend to understand them.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 318
# 17
11-17-2012, 08:58 AM
I may have missed it but what Duty officers are you using?

Emergency power to X cycling is a must on the vesta and you have to run voodoo setups to get the most out of it with its low amount of engi slots.

For your setup its going to be expensive and take a long time to get tweaked and follow advice about power levels carefully. The forums usually rather spot on, general chat in game is usually listen to the advice and do the exact opposite.

For a torp vesta for busting stf mobs you'll want to swap to quantums and keep your beams but drop the cannon. Your gonna need torpedo officers and if running quantums purples are preferred.


Now the Emergency power to X part. EPTX works best if you can run two different types and keep them both at 98% uptime(cooldown odities keep you from getting 100% with two types). However its rather tricky to do that with only 3 engi slots. So you have two and a half options.
Option one run the cooldown duty oficers that have a chance to proc on EPTX(damage control engineers) you need blues/purples and three of them. They have a 30 to 35% chance so Binomial distribution for two powers says you have a 89% to 93% chance off your EPTX cooldowns getting reduced. This means most of the time you can have two separate EMPTX skills going at nearly full uptime for the vesta shields and aux are the ones I like to use, as you seem to like torps weapon power isnt so important so probly stay away from that one.
Option two Double aux to battery builds. This is full on cooldown witchdoctor voodoo, 3 purple technicians reduce all bridge officer cooldowns by 30% when aux to battery is used. aux to battery reduces EVERY THING that is currently on cooldown even the other used aux to bat. After you get the cycle rolling your ship basically stays at 125/125/80/10
That is godly for cannon tanking builds, however torps dont care about your weapon power level and your sci skills are laughable at 10 power. Also you do sometimes just completely drain your aux and simply not have sci skills for a bit. So Super powerful but its got its dose of kyrptonite to go with it.
Option Three just use one EPTX type. This is the half option, its saying screw it and just going with something that you can depend on, as it doesnt have teh drawbacks teh other options have. Run two of the same type of EPTX and when one is off cooldown use it. That subsystem stays powered up 100%. for this use power to shields and only power to shields as all the others just arnt as good.

So personally for you and your build I would say go the double power to route and dispense with the usually rather expensive voodoo. But you know about it now and can try it if you have a horde of blue and purple duty officers sitting around.

This is what I would recommend as a base, that with two torps front one rear and beams filling most of the power in shields and aux should be fun. fill leftover sci as you please and if you have purple TT cooldown officers swap one of the TT for a HYT or something.
captain skill loadout is a safe bet build for torps but in now way a this is best build so ignore or take parts if you want. but mostly the advice that red points are the least efficient points so if you have something you want but cant afford take from something you have thats red. Some of the skills give extraordinarily little reward for those last few points.
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...ild=OmniShip_0

Last edited by hroothvitnir; 11-17-2012 at 09:03 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 18
11-17-2012, 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by latiasracer View Post
However. 80% Of my STF deaths are due to the borgs plasma fire, Hell i've had several instances where i have had FULL Shields, get hit by a plasma torp at 70% hull and 2 mins later i'm saying my goodbyes.

1) Plasma Fire is plasma damage, and you can put out plasma fire DoTs with Hazard Emitters. You're in a science ship doing STFs, hazard emitters is beyond mandatory.

2) Plasma Torps are kinetic damage, not plasma damage. They also have a plasma DoT that is plasma damage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by latiasracer View Post
Here's my layout for reference, or any suggestions on improvements : http://i.imgur.com/Qi8VX.jpg
Your layout has quite a lot of issues.

1) Only 1 copy of Emergency Power to shields. You should be running 2 copies, so 1 copy is active all of the time. 'Full shields' doesn't mean anything if they are not backed up by resistances.

EPTS gives you more shield power which also translates to more resistance on top of the resistance it gives as well as higher regen. There is no reason to not be running 2 copies of this power, get rid of EPTW1.

2) You have 0 Field Generators. You have 2 biofunction monitors that basically do nothing at all. You should swap to at the very least 1 Field Generator + sci consoles that actually improve your science skills.

Since you have a minimum of Science skills, I'd just go with 4 Field Generators or a 2/2 split. Having " a little bit of everything" is probably not doing anything for you, and the biofunction monitors are certainly doing nothing.

3) Your tactical consoles are all over the place. Pick one weapon type and stick to it. Spreading it all over means you're not really getting good returns on any one thing.


4) Your weapon layout is again, all over the place.

You have rear facing weapons that don't help your front facing weapons. You have 2 Torpedo skills for 2 torpedos and 1 cannon skill but only one cannon?

There's clearly no plan at all to your weapons layout.

Simplify your layout, streamline your boff powers to match and make sure all or at least most of your weapons can all be fired in the same direction.


I'm going to be rude here, but its in an effort to help you - your ship is not doing much with that layout. It's the kind of sci ship that makes people groan that there is a sci ship in an STF.


This is a better, more effective example.


Fore: DHC x 3 or DHC x 2 + 1 Torp
Aft: 3x Turrets to support your DHCs and to prevent you from needing to turn around all the time to use a rear torp.

Eng Consoles: No change, just improve quality when you can afford it
Sci Consoles: 3x Field Generators + 1 Universal Console
Tac Consoles: 4x Phaser Relays


Boffs

Sci CMD: HE 1 > TSS 2 > TBR 2 > GW 3
Tac Ltc: TT 1 > CRF 2 > CRF 3
Tac Lt: TT 1 > TS 2
Eng Lt: EPTS 1 > Aux to SIF 1
Eng Ens: EPTS 1


Let's review what's changed:

1) Your weapons and weapon powers are streamlined, you'll do more damage and be more effective.

2) Your consoles all better support your more streamlined powers and weapons layout.

3) Your self buffs now all cover you with both heals and resistance, and you have 2 copies of tac team which are going to go a lot further than 1 copy of sci team (adds no resistance) and eng team (adds no resistance).

4) You lost a Shield Heal in Sci Team but picked up another one in Transfer Shield Strength. You lost a hull heal in Eng Team, but picked up another in Hazard Emitters. On top of this, both TSS and HE add resistance as well as a heal, and HE also carries a debuff cleanse for use against plasma. You also gain TT coverage which helps against sudden shield drops & borg boarding parties.

5) You lose Scramble Sensors, which is a minor loss and does very little against the borg IIRC (and possibly nothing to several targets).



Give this layout a try, and if you are not significantly more survivable then we have a PEBKAC error.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 11-17-2012 at 09:41 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 590
# 19
11-17-2012, 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
1) Plasma Fire is plasma damage, and you can put out plasma fire DoTs with Hazard Emitters. You're in a science ship doing STFs, hazard emitters is beyond mandatory.

2) Plasma Torps are kinetic damage, not plasma damage. They also have a plasma DoT that is plasma damage.




Your layout has quite a lot of issues.

1) Only 1 copy of Emergency Power to shields. You should be running 2 copies, so 1 copy is active all of the time. 'Full shields' doesn't mean anything if they are not backed up by resistances.

EPTS gives you more shield power which also translates to more resistance on top of the resistance it gives as well as higher regen. There is no reason to not be running 2 copies of this power, get rid of EPTW1.

2) You have 0 Field Generators. You have 2 biofunction monitors that basically do nothing at all. You should swap to at the very least 1 Field Generator + sci consoles that actually improve your science skills.

Since you have a minimum of Science skills, I'd just go with 4 Field Generators or a 2/2 split. Having " a little bit of everything" is probably not doing anything for you, and the biofunction monitors are certainly doing nothing.

3) Your tactical consoles are all over the place. Pick one weapon type and stick to it. Spreading it all over means you're not really getting good returns on any one thing.


4) Your weapon layout is again, all over the place.

You have rear facing weapons that don't help your front facing weapons. You have 2 Torpedo skills for 2 torpedos and 1 cannon skill but only one cannon?

There's clearly no plan at all to your weapons layout.

Simplify your layout, streamline your boff powers to match and make sure all or at least most of your weapons can all be fired in the same direction.


I'm going to be rude here, but its in an effort to help you - your ship is not doing much with that layout. It's the kind of sci ship that makes people groan that there is a sci ship in an STF.


This is a better, more effective example.


Fore: DHC x 3 or DHC x 2 + 1 Torp
Aft: 3x Turrets to support your DHCs and to prevent you from needing to turn around all the time to use a rear torp.

Eng Consoles: No change, just improve quality when you can afford it
Sci Consoles: 3x Field Generators + 1 Universal Console
Tac Consoles: 4x Phaser Relays


Boffs

Sci CMD: HE 1 > TSS 2 > TBR 2 > GW 3
Tac Ltc: TT 1 > CRF 2 > CRF 3
Tac Lt: TT 1 > TS 2
Eng Lt: EPTS 1 > Aux to SIF 1
Eng Ens: EPTS 1


Let's review what's changed:

1) Your weapons and weapon powers are streamlined, you'll do more damage and be more effective.

2) Your consoles all better support your more streamlined powers and weapons layout.

3) Your self buffs now all cover you with both heals and resistance, and you have 2 copies of tac team which are going to go a lot further than 1 copy of sci team (adds no resistance) and eng team (adds no resistance).

4) You lost a Shield Heal in Sci Team but picked up another one in Transfer Shield Strength. You lost a hull heal in Eng Team, but picked up another in Hazard Emitters. On top of this, both TSS and HE add resistance as well as a heal, and HE also carries a debuff cleanse for use against plasma. You also gain TT coverage which helps against sudden shield drops & borg boarding parties.

5) You lose Scramble Sensors, which is a minor loss and does very little against the borg IIRC (and possibly nothing to several targets).



Give this layout a try, and if you are not significantly more survivable then we have a PEBKAC error.

I Shall give that ago, thankyou!

However, i know it's not tailored for max DPS, but i want it that way because i don't really like cannons, they don't feel "Trek" to me, hence why i've chosen phasers. (Except the one the ship comes with, because they have 480dps and that's flipping nice)

About my tactical consoles... I didn't think they where "All over the place"

Chronitons don't do much raw damage, but they are so pretty, so that's why i have the XII console for them.The Directed energy manifold is a boost to all energy damage, i'm using that because the phaser relays are expensive, and it boosts my Quantum focus phaser by a little.

And there is a very highly detailed weapon plan on my ship, prettiness :3 (Although i'm going to get quantums.)

Thanks for the feedback, i'll definitely take your advice on BoFF powers into account!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,895
# 20
11-17-2012, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by latiasracer View Post
I Shall give that ago, thankyou!

However, i know it's not tailored for max DPS, but i want it that way because i don't really like cannons, they don't feel "Trek" to me, hence why i've chosen phasers. (Except the one the ship comes with, because they have 480dps and that's flipping nice)

About my tactical consoles... I didn't think they where "All over the place"

Chronitons don't do much raw damage, but they are so pretty, so that's why i have the XII console for them.The Directed energy manifold is a boost to all energy damage, i'm using that because the phaser relays are expensive, and it boosts my Quantum focus phaser by a little.

And there is a very highly detailed weapon plan on my ship, prettiness :3 (Although i'm going to get quantums.)

Thanks for the feedback, i'll definitely take your advice on BoFF powers into account!
I'm sure "prettiness" is a great quality of a ship setup. However, when you have trouble with a ship, I believe that surviving is more important.

In order to survive, you can do two things. Destroy things quickly. Be tougher than enemies. Best way is to do both (Destroy hostile targets before they can destroy you).

Therefore you need both a good defense plan and a good attack plan.

As for specifics, I'd go with USSUltimatum's advice.

To that I can add that with help of two purple Conn officer doffs (of the type enhancing Tac team), or one purple/one blue, you can do away with one copy of Tac team and slot another Torpedo skill.
If not using torps, forget about this (you'll have nothing else to slot instead of Tac team). Also, exchange the advised TS 2 for an Attack pattern Beta.
With help of three blue or better quality (some players swear 2 purples are very sufficient as well) Damage Control engineer doffs, you can get virtually full uptime on each used Emergency power while only using one copy. Then you could change one of your EPtS 1 to EPtAux 1 or EPtEng 1 to get a nice bonus in chosen subsystem.

I guess you'd get several copies of the Aux-based DHCs (by dissmissing and reclaiming the ship while keeping the DHC), therefore you don't really need Weapons power (just for turrets), ---that's why I didn't include EPtW 1 to previous point---.
Therefore, set max power to auxiliary (main weapons and your sci abilities), the rest, I'd go with shields, personally.
(Still, that's one thing where perpetual adjusting is helpful, you can save 4 presets and choose the most appropriate in any given situation. Like giving more punch to turrets --wep. power-- when unable to bring Aux-DHCs to bear and not needing sci powers. Or giving full power to engines and shields when escaping doom.)

Don't forget that your hangar pets can also play a meaningful role. Like runabouts slowing and holding enemies (if you don't need to chase enemies around, you generally don't need that much engine power, for example).

I think that's it from me. Following that, you should get a decent and easy to use build.

However, there are great many ways of playing sci ships while staying more or less useful on the field of battle and enjoying it. (I think more possibilities than on other types of ships.)
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix: Bring in the Allegiance class
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia: Design that long overdue Tier 5 C-Store Raptor
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var: Give us Asylums for Romulans

Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!

Last edited by toiva; 11-17-2012 at 11:21 AM.
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