Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 214
# 1 Question
11-18-2012, 06:58 PM
I do not believe in doing something behind someones back, I have always found that wrong. Anyways I fly a Bird of prey on my Klingon and a Tactical escort refit on my Federation character. The Defiant seems slower to turn and a little bit more resistance to it, in the area of survival. The bird of prey seems to have a much better turn rate but a little less resistance to it then the Defiant.

I am almost afraid to ask the question with all the bads in the Federation swarming these forums looking for any excuse to say the KDF is op, but I am going to ask. Should the Tactical escort refit have battle cloak? The thought is derived that they both rely heavily on hit and run tactics, neither one can stay in a sustained fight for very long. Especially when it comes to the Borg in a elite stf. Thoughts on this by the KDF? It is quite possibly I am missing something.

Both toons are tactical. Both ships are using rapid fire three, structural integrity one, engineering team one, transfer shield strength two, polarize hull one, attack pattern omega, mine attack pattern beta, two sets of tactical teams, and high yield torp two.

The KDF has torp spread 2
The FED has torp spread one with attack pattern delta.

Both have a kinetic resist armor with a ablative hull armor.

Strategy is I use the shield strength to boost the tact team. Polarize hull keeps tractor beams off me with is death to an escort. The mines when using the mine ability can lay down some serious damage.

So thoughts?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,442
# 2
11-18-2012, 08:30 PM
Honestly, in my opinion, no. The Defiant already has an extra bridge officer ability and an extra tactical console compared to the BoP.

Honestly, though, this topic has been done to death in the Federation Gameplay section. Just go there if you want to discuss this topic.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 3
11-18-2012, 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaalom View Post
I do not believe in doing something behind someones back, I have always found that wrong. Anyways I fly a Bird of prey on my Klingon and a Tactical escort refit on my Federation character. The Defiant seems slower to turn and a little bit more resistance to it, in the area of survival. The bird of prey seems to have a much better turn rate but a little less resistance to it then the Defiant.

I am almost afraid to ask the question with all the bads in the Federation swarming these forums looking for any excuse to say the KDF is op, but I am going to ask. Should the Tactical escort refit have battle cloak? The thought is derived that they both rely heavily on hit and run tactics, neither one can stay in a sustained fight for very long. Especially when it comes to the Borg in a elite stf. Thoughts on this by the KDF? It is quite possibly I am missing something.

Both toons are tactical. Both ships are using rapid fire three, structural integrity one, engineering team one, transfer shield strength two, polarize hull one, attack pattern omega, mine attack pattern beta, two sets of tactical teams, and high yield torp two.

The KDF has torp spread 2
The FED has torp spread one with attack pattern delta.

Both have a kinetic resist armor with a ablative hull armor.

Strategy is I use the shield strength to boost the tact team. Polarize hull keeps tractor beams off me with is death to an escort. The mines when using the mine ability can lay down some serious damage.

So thoughts?
The Federation doesn't need a battlecloak.

The issue, really, is this: The Defiant has a cloak, and that cloak gives them the exact same element of surprise, and the exact same decloaking weapons buff. The ONLY difference is that the battlecloak can be activated before the Red Alert indicator goes away. While this is useful, it is extremely conditional. In most battle situations against competent PvPers, it's usually suicidal to cloak in the middle of a firefight. You have to first escape (again, not always easy against competent PvPers) and then cloak. You're basically only getting another 5-10 seconds over the Defiant. In exchange, the BoP is considerably more squishy than any other Federation escort, and traditionally has one tactical console slot less (though the Fleet Hoh'sus compensates for this nicely enough, the Fleet Defiant has 5 effing consoles).

In terms of ambushing, the Defiant is better. The main thing the BoPs have is the 'running' part, and again that's not 100%. So, perhaps you can see why BoP pilots like myself are rather bitter when it comes to discussions about battlecloaks. The uniqueness of the battlecloak to BoPs (with the exception of the Lifetime reward ship, which also has a battlecloak) is the only true advantage the BoPs have left, as the universal consoles aren't as great as they used to be.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 214
# 4
11-18-2012, 10:39 PM
Not trying to step on anyones toes, I already know what the fed players think about this, and honestly that does not mean much. As they will say anything is op if they are not able to face roll it. I also realize there are some good fed players out there.

As for the other reply you bring up a good point about that battle cloak, you still have to make sure your relatively safe before using it or you get destroyed. Something that I did not think about when I wrote this post, even though I experienced that myself on my Klingon toon.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 5
11-18-2012, 11:17 PM
There is a thread in the Feds forum for this. Go there and see all the arguments as to why they should get one (mostly insubstantiated bs being said by wimp feds who see something and want it), and arguments as to why they shouldn't get one (mostly KDF players who either A) see it as kdf only and have seagull syndrome (MINE MINE MINE MINE), or B) players who see what battlecloak is and give logical good reasons as to why it shouldn't).
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 6
11-19-2012, 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
There is a thread in the Feds forum for this. Go there and see all the arguments as to why they should get one (mostly insubstantiated bs being said by wimp feds who see something and want it), and arguments as to why they shouldn't get one (mostly KDF players who either A) see it as kdf only and have seagull syndrome (MINE MINE MINE MINE), or B) players who see what battlecloak is and give logical good reasons as to why it shouldn't).
I think I posted in that thread, and I have a little of both A and B. I would like to keep certain thing exclusive to the KDF (the Federation has a few exclusives of it's own, as well), but I also provide good reasons why the Federation escorts (especially the defiant) don't need a friggin battlecloak

The Federation has more variety and flexibility in its escorts than the KDF raptors do, and have a cloaking ship that already does what the BoP and the Raptor is 'supposed' to do, only better. The last thing this game needs is a battlecloaking Defiant to unbalance things even further.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 507
# 7
11-19-2012, 12:54 AM
The Bird of Prey is not the same/similar ship class to the Defiant Tactical Escort, it's a completely different brand and specialised ship. That is your problem right there. The actual KDF answer to the Tactical Escort and all fed escorts are actually their Raptors.

You need to look at facts. Bird of Prey is A LOT squishier than an escort. Just look at Fleet Norgh; the danubes have more hull hp than that and they are pets! Also need to account for the pitiful shield modifier. A BoP can't stay in a stand up fight for a while without expecting to take a kicking. The Tactical Escort can. If you are unable to tank decently in a Fed Escort you really are flying it wrong.

So in short summary:
Raider =/= Escort
Raptor = Escort
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 214
# 8
11-19-2012, 01:11 AM
I am going to let this thread die now. Some of you are being constructive, while some are overlooking my point Also sometimes although rare developers do something that is said on the forums. I did not want the klingons to get screwed because a post I made, especially if they were against said Idea. As I already said in my other post in this thread, the other klingon player brought up a good point about the battle cloak, that I had forgotten.

Also you try tanking the gate in infected space elite lol. Flying a tactical escort against a tactical cube or gate in a elite stf gets tricky. It did not help matters when they nerfed the Borg set. I could understand the anger If I was trying to sneak this in somewhere, but sense the battle cloak is purely a klingon thing. I thought it would be more correct to post here.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,587
# 9
11-19-2012, 01:16 AM
Y'know, if the Defiant or any Fed ship got a battlecloak, maybe they would finally fix that stupid de-cloaking bug, due to the huge piles of whining that would occur.

That aside, I agree with Vitzh that raider doesn't equal escort. If the Federation had some kind of 'raider' level ship with no cloak, then I would say they had more of a reason to want it, but they don't.

The Defiant needs no battle cloak, because an escort is meant to do that...escort. They fire heavy, hard hitting volleys of fire, circle around, and fire again, but stay close to their primary ship. A raider de-cloaks, fires a few volleys, re-cloak, and run away, finding another good spot to de-cloak and do it again, hit-and-run in the purest sense.

As a totally seperate note, I would bet* an entire fleet's worth of bug ships, that if Feds ever did get a battle cloak, there would be guaranteed, a thread then asking for an enhanced battle cloak.

*Not really bet though.

Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 10
11-19-2012, 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
Y'know, if the Defiant or any Fed ship got a battlecloak, maybe they would finally fix that stupid de-cloaking bug, due to the huge piles of whining that would occur.

That aside, I agree with Vitzh that raider doesn't equal escort. If the Federation had some kind of 'raider' level ship with no cloak, then I would say they had more of a reason to want it, but they don't.

The Defiant needs no battle cloak, because an escort is meant to do that...escort. They fire heavy, hard hitting volleys of fire, circle around, and fire again, but stay close to their primary ship. A raider de-cloaks, fires a few volleys, re-cloak, and run away, finding another good spot to de-cloak and do it again, hit-and-run in the purest sense.

As a totally seperate note, I would bet* an entire fleet's worth of bug ships, that if Feds ever did get a battle cloak, there would be guaranteed, a thread then asking for an enhanced battle cloak.

*Not really bet though.
Yeah, I'd probably bet that as well. They're never satisfied. What they want is all the KDF exclusives. . .which would also make the KDF faction pointless. Why bother messing around with a faction that has less content, less players, less ship variety, and no exclusives? The only players that would remain would be stubborn Klingon enthusiasts like myself, and enthusiasm only lasts so long.
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