Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 208
# 21
11-19-2012, 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
Why not take time to look around, see the galaxy, explore somewhere you haven't before?
What's left to explore? If it weren't for the time-gating, you could experience all Season 7 content in a few hours. Locking people out of that content for two months isn't an effective way to make content last longer, it just makes people get bored (and frustrated) much faster.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,323
# 22
11-19-2012, 08:52 AM
I've got 7 toons, 4 of which are level 50. I designed each of them to fly particular ships. One has a Jem'Hadar attack ship, the other a Tholian Orb Weaver. In my humble opinion the Jemmie is a far superior ship, making the toon who captains it more formidable.

It took 7 weeks for the Jemmie captain to get mk XII M.A.C.O gear. It took 2 days for the Orb Weaver to get his set. How is it right for a better combatant to take longer to get the best stuff? Under the old system, my toons aside, we all know that it was possible for superior players to take longer to get the best end game gear than average or low skilled players.

How can people say that that is an equitable system? How can people not see that earning the gear is fairer than a random drop, a random drop that may never come for some?

This new system rewards the best end game gear to those who earn it, not luck upon it. People are more dedicated and more skilled will be able to access their gear first. Why is that unfair? Shouldn't the most dedicated and skilled be rewarded first?

Yes, I understand that losing a system that had the potential to give you awesome drops fast in favour of a system that has the potential to give you items at a slower rate may seem tough. For the players who never got their sets, this has the potential to be fairer. Still, I think that we need to look beyond our own viewpoints and consider the long term benefits to the game.

Oh, and for the record I do NOT consider myself a superior player. I consider myself to be an average player and I feel that players with more skill who dedicate more time to the game deserve to get the best gear before me.

Last edited by darramouss1; 11-19-2012 at 08:54 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 928
# 23
11-19-2012, 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
That's not my intent. If people perceive it that way then I apologise.



But Joe Smith has been slowed down as well. The only way he can achieve your pace is by playing the same or more hours than you.



Why? Because until now you've had it better than any other game I can think of. STO has been far more generous than other games by giving you more goodies faster than you probably should have been given them.

Why can't you appreciate that fact and be happy that you had such a good run? Why maintain a sense of entitlement? Why should you have more than other MMO players?

For argument's sake, let's assume that season 7 actually benefits the game and leads to a stronger STO future. Would you still prefer season 7 to be dialled back just so you can gather more dilithium?

Dar, get this little fact. Subcribers are LEAVING. they either cancel or let it expire. A few of them been hear since day one. S7 is the cause and as such cryptic is losing money. That is a serious problem. WHAT PART OF THAT DON'T YOU GET. WE are over grind and get little in return. Listen to the latest eliteforce podcast on this issue. http://eliteforcepodcast.com/category/audio-archive/

Face while they are some good things in s7 they are COMPLETELY over shadowed by the many problems.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,459
# 24
11-19-2012, 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
It took 7 weeks for the Jemmie captain to get mk XII M.A.C.O gear. It took 2 days for the Orb Weaver to get his set. How is it right for a better combatant to take longer to get the best stuff? Under the old system, my toons aside, we all know that it was possible for superior players to take longer to get the best end game gear than average or low skilled players.
First of all, damage output should not be relevant to how quickly you earn rewards because some ships and builds are not aimed at producing damage output.

But secondly, I am sympathetic to the problem of players stuck in an eternal grind mode trying to get the item they wanted. And I even have a solution! That solution is not season 7. The solution is to put the Mark 12 set items in old STF store, but they cost some amount of prototype salvage. 8 pieces maybe? You may not have gotten the prototype tech you wanted, but you DID get some prototype salvage, I guarantee it. So you will never be stuck in a run of 100 unproductive attempts to get the tech you wanted, you WILL sooner or later get enough prototype salvage and just buy the item outright.

Season 7 has a lot of goals, and making sure everybody has access to the mark 12 set items is waaaaay down on the list, and it suffers for being such a low priority. You can't be "unlucky" anymore, but you can't be lucky either, and it's just a huge time sink.

Quote:
This new system rewards the best end game gear to those who earn it, not luck upon it. People are more dedicated and more skilled will be able to access their gear first.
Actually... since it's incredibly tightly time-gated, making it pointless to run more than 1 or 2 STF missions to get the marks you need, player effort has basically nothing to do with it. It's time, time, and more time.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,742
# 25
11-19-2012, 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
That's adding fuel on the fire. Don't. The forums don't need that. People are frustrated because Cryptic want them to be frustrated so that they keep playing the game for some time: see why they complain, they want to achieve specific goals badly, and the more they say that's unfair the more they'll keep playing STO.
Are you mad? Season 7 hasn't encouraged me to continue playing STO, in fact, it has convinced me to quit on it for the time being.

Why would I, or anyone else for that matter choose to play a game that is at fault? There's no logic in that. They'd be giving in too Cryptic/PWE's greed and will be screwed harder come Season 8.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 437
# 26
11-19-2012, 09:58 AM
Ah I have to agree that

running around New Romulus once a day
or doing the same 6 STF's,
or the same 6 fleet events,
about 20 times each
just to start 1 of 50 projects needed to get to a low tiered item

Isn't as fun as I hoped it would be.

Maybe they should just let us choose what reward we want from each mission.. at least then we wouldn't be forced to do the same 3 or 4 over and over. ( as we all know some of the missions just take WAY too long for the little tiny reward.. ah hem *fleet blockade*... *azure nebula rescue*..)
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,459
# 27
11-19-2012, 10:28 AM
Every mission, even episodes, should award dil.

Every mission that awards marks should give you the option of marks, more dil, or EC.

Problem (partially) solved.
Ensign
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 14
# 28
11-19-2012, 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
It took 7 weeks for the Jemmie captain to get mk XII M.A.C.O gear. It took 2 days for the Orb Weaver to get his set. How is it right for a better combatant to take longer to get the best stuff?
I would point out that 7 week is still 13 days faster than the absolute minim time required to purchase one mark 12 anything from the reputation store. Add another 40 hours for each additional piece of equipment after that. This translates to about another 10 to 12 days to complete a seven weapons and 3 set items, assuming you pull double time with both of your project slots. Even with the the old random system and terrible luck you were still able to acquire all your gear much faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
How can people say that that is an equitable system? How can people not see that earning the gear is fairer than a random drop, a random drop that may never come for some?
I don't think anyone is claiming the old system is equitable. If they are, then I can certainly agree with you that it is not. It was, however, better, despite its flaws. Players could grind for those rare prototype salvage items, but in the process they'd earn other things that could be used as well. EDC's to trade in for Doffs or dilithium.
The blue quality salvages were common enough, and could also be traded for dilithium, but they could also be traded for mark 11 set gear and weapons, which have always been just ever so slightly inferior to the mark 12's. The mark 12 gear was always intended as an extra little teeny tiny bonus for those who stuck with it long enough, not something everyone should expect to get. Essentially they were vanity items.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
This new system rewards the best end game gear to those who earn it, not luck upon it. People are more dedicated and more skilled will be able to access their gear first. Why is that unfair? Shouldn't the most dedicated and skilled be rewarded first?
Except that's not how it works. Perhaps you can only play STO for an hour or two every other other day, but a lot of us have more free time than that. Unfortunately these time gates are slowing down a 5-6 hour a day player like myself down to a player who averages an hour a day.
The reputation system does not reflect player skill at all. It only reflects a player's ability to wait for a countdown timer to elapse. This is something literally anyone can do with the exact same proficiency as anyone who has ever lived.


Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
Yes, I understand that losing a system that had the potential to give you awesome drops fast in favour of a system that has the potential to give you items at a slower rate may seem tough.
It's not just tough, it's unfair. Do you like that Jem'Hadar Attack Ship you have? Imagine if you were required to earn your right just to have the ability to buy it. Surely this would be done by performing some epic feats of strength and valor in combat, right? No. You just have to submit an order form and wait six months for it to go through. Then you can buy it... after you wait another month for delivery. This waiting period would also require you to regularly touch base with Cryptic, or the process will indefinitely stall. And you have to give up purchasing other ships during the wait period. Does this sound fun? Does this sound like a merit system, awarding more skilled players? No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
For the players who never got their sets, this has the potential to be fairer. Still, I think that we need to look beyond our own viewpoints and consider the long term benefits to the game.
Except I'm pretty sure most of the unlucky or new players will quickly discover that this new system, while more "reliable," is still unbearably slow compared to the old way, which would have still reliably granted more gear at a faster rate, and didn't require a 2 month wait to get the good stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
Oh, and for the record I do NOT consider myself a superior player. I consider myself to be an average player and I feel that players with more skill who dedicate more time to the game deserve to get the best gear before me.
And, as stated many times before, this is not how the new system works. Waiting does not require skill. It requires the ability to travel through time at the rate of one second per second, which is apparently innate to all matter in the universe... barring some special theoretical exceptions, that is.
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