Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 86
# 401
11-19-2012, 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantasrs View Post
The problem isn't all in our heads. It's in society. It's in you guys saying the problem isn't real.
These aren't internal sexism issues, they're issues women have to deal with ever day of our lives. Until you've walked a day in a woman's shoes, surrounded with images of what women should be according to men, feeling the gazes of men on your body, fearing for your safety when walking alone in the afternoon because it's a real possibility that some man might come and force you to have sex with them (they censored the actual word for this action for some reason) because what are women but sex objects anyways, don't say it's all in our heads.
This is our society. This is the problem.
That seems a bit paranoid... Most women I've met have gotten around the whole "sex object" thing by not dressing provocatively, thus not attracting unwanted attention. If you don't want the attention, don't beg for it.

Yes, there are really sexists in the world, it's still a problem and always will be. But they are on both genders. The men see women as nothing more than child-bearing workhorses and sex objects, and then women see men as violent, evil testosterone-filled maniacs.

I want to see this lady's uniform changed as much as you do, but to jump to these conclusions is a bit upsetting.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,790
# 402
11-19-2012, 08:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxrockssocks View Post
While some people get hung up on the uniform, I don't care. Imagine her in a full TNG uniform. She would still be insulting.

Why? First, that vacant open mouthed stare that says she's not all there. That look, and looking at the viewer makes no sense at all in her presumed situation. Its not an emotionless Vulcan look.

Second, what the heck is her hair doing? It is not moving away from her path of motion, its blowing in the wind in an unnecessary over-glamorized effect. Oh yeah, and how often did we see a Vulcan with her hair resembling that in Star Trek? Only in the Mirror Universe.

Third, she has a phaser ready to fire but she doesn't look where she is aiming. She doesn't think its important. Anyone handling a weapon like that had better still be in basic training. Too bad she has captain pips.

Fourth, why is she falling? That doesn't look elegant, graceful, or any sort of badass.

Fifth, she is clearly wearing a lot of makeup. But she's on duty? And a vulcan?


So who cares what she is wearing when everything else is wrong? The pose, the physics, the look, the scene is all ridiculous and when you combine everything together it makes her look like a sex object and nothing more, because she clearly isn't being portrayed as a badass, competent, thinking, Vulcan captain in Starfleet.

She's nothing but Trek flavored eye candy in that picture. That is why it is offensive. If she were more than just eye candy, it would be fine, but nothing in the picture indicates that.
Yes to first point, yes to second point, yes to third point, yes to fourth point and yes to fifth point.

Well articulated.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix: Bring in the Allegiance class
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia: Design that long overdue Tier 5 C-Store Raptor
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var: Give us Asylums for Romulans

Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 23
# 403
11-19-2012, 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantasrs View Post
The problem isn't all in our heads. It's in society. It's in you guys saying the problem isn't real.
These aren't internal sexism issues, they're issues women have to deal with ever day of our lives. Until you've walked a day in a woman's shoes, surrounded with images of what women should be according to men, feeling the gazes of men on your body, fearing for your safety when walking alone in the afternoon because it's a real possibility that some man might come and force you to have sex with them (they censored the actual word for this action for some reason) because what are women but sex objects anyways, don't say it's all in our heads.
This is our society. This is the problem.

Back to the subject at hand.
In Star Trek, our society has advanced past seeing women predominantly as sex objects. This problem is no more.
But PWE obviously didn't get the memo with this image of this Vulcan woman with the vacant expression. But we all know how they're all about profit and that sex sells. And look at the way women are portrayed in all their other games. They're just another part of the problem.

All I want is for them to use the same kind of imagery in their marketing for both males and females. Handsome Phaser Dude looked good. A woman in the same style uniform as him would be great. I'm just asking for equality.
To your first paragraph, I once walked into a Mary Kay convention by accident. So yes, I know what it feels like to be a side of meat. The horror...the horror!

Terrible, isn't it? And I don't care. Not one bit. I'm not in this game to solve the world's social ills. I'm in it to get away from the world for a bit and enjoy the Star Trek universe.

And this is a fictional virtual universe. Not a perfect one where everyone is equal and everyone gets along together singing Kumbaya. This is a universe with quite a bit of implied sex. This is a world with scantily clad Orion slave girls, miniskirted Federation uniforms, sexual pheromone excreting Deltans, nekkid Ferengi females and nekkid Betazoid's running around. Not to mention DS9's Dabo girls (I forgot about them in my last post), and 7 of 9 with her high heeled, exceptionally skin tight catsuit...and in the last movie, didn't Kirk do the voyeuristic Peeping Tom bit with Uhura as she got dressed?

In short since its inception until present, Star Trek has traditionally granted all viewers a healthy dosage of female eye candy and Pretty Phaser Lady is in keeping with this high tradition. In fact, it's actually quite mild, tbqh.

What's next, all hand weapons set to 'tickle', no more ships blowing up in combat and only decaf raktajino to drink???

Enough! We will draw the line here! Bring on the Pretty Phaser Lady wallpaper!

Just sayin'!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,401
# 404
11-19-2012, 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikdanger View Post
In short since its inception until present, Star Trek has traditionally granted all viewers a healthy dosage of female eye candy and Pretty Phaser Lady is in keeping with this high tradition. In fact, it's actually quite mild, tbqh.
Just sayin'!
Finding examples makes it alright. Precedent does not justify all cases. I object to them as much as to this.

Cryptic! Need some FREE KDF uniform options that you wont have to make? See Here.

JJ. Trek is just as canon and awesome as all other Trek, Get over it.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 23
# 405
11-19-2012, 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by artan42 View Post
Finding examples makes it alright. Precedent does not justify all cases. I object to them as much as to this.
Then this fictional universe is not for you, I'm sorry to say. I've pretty much proven that with all of the examples above: it simply doesn't meet your standards.

Good luck to you!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,217
# 406
11-19-2012, 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikdanger View Post
Then this fictional universe is not for you, I'm sorry to say. I've pretty much proven that with all of the examples above: it simply doesn't meet your standards.
Are Deltans, Orions and Dabo Girls representative of Star Trek as a whole? If not, then we shouldn't have something like that on the main page. It doesn't look like Star Trek, and since this is supposed to be Star Trek Online, I'd say we have a problem.
Please fix the Foundry lag!
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13
# 407
11-19-2012, 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycoticvulcan View Post
Are Deltans, Orions and Dabo Girls representative of Star Trek as a whole? If not, then we shouldn't have something like that on the main page. It doesn't look like Star Trek, and since this is supposed to be Star Trek Online, I'd say we have a problem.
Quoted because this is basically the whole point.
There's all sorts of ladies in Star Trek but we don't have to represent the lot of them with a seductive alien lady. There are so many better examples of women portrayed in Star Trek you could've used, too, like Captain Janeway or Major Kira.


I'd also like to mention that there's a difference between the sexual liberation of women, allowing them to choose what to wear and how to behave, and the sexual objectification of women, insisting that they dress a certain way and not think about what they want in order to please men.
Star Trek has walked this line but I'd like to think that as a whole it's more on the liberated side. Betazoids having naked weddings, for instance, isn't a sexual thing, it's an honesty thing. Just to list a couple more examples: Orion females being skantily clad and sold is a scam, controlled by the Orion ladies themselves, for personal gain, not for the sexual gratification of men. T'pol's catsuit was definitely a ploy to attract males to watch Enterprise, but as the show progressed her character developed so she was never just there for fan service. Same with Seven of Nine. In fact, all the main characters in Star Trek, regardless of their attire, have their own stories and personalities.
Pretty Vulcan Lady, however, exists only to look sexy in her short skirt and low cut top and sell the game with her dreamy gaze. That's part of why she's so objectionable. Handsome Phaser Guy, while also with no purpose but to advertise the game, wore a normal uniform and looked where he shot. I don't think I need to go on at this point because it's just the same list of points again.
PhantasmagoricRS
On the forums September 2009
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,401
# 408
11-19-2012, 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikdanger View Post
Then this fictional universe is not for you, I'm sorry to say. I've pretty much proven that with all of the examples above: it simply doesn't meet your standards.

Good luck to you!
Seriously! You think My objections to sexism means there is nothing in ST for me! Wow we must watch different shows.

Cryptic! Need some FREE KDF uniform options that you wont have to make? See Here.

JJ. Trek is just as canon and awesome as all other Trek, Get over it.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 715
# 409
11-19-2012, 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Or maybe she is just a Vulcan? I mean, for a promotional image, you obviously want something attractive... like a beautiful pointy-eared space elf.
Titties also helps....
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 945
# 410
11-19-2012, 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycoticvulcan View Post
Are Deltans, Orions and Dabo Girls representative of Star Trek as a whole? If not, then we shouldn't have something like that on the main page. It doesn't look like Star Trek, and since this is supposed to be Star Trek Online, I'd say we have a problem.

What part of this game is actually representative of what Star Trek was? The going into random star systems and killing aliens who have a claim on archeological sites of prayer, so another species with the same claim who just happens to be friendlier with us can go and pray in peace with no attempt at a diplomatic solution?


Or the invading enemy bases and killing everyone there to find evidence of weapons of mass destruction, despite the person giving the orders is clearly unbalanced and should be sanctioned? (Before someone mentions Chain of Command, they already had the evidence before they went in).


The Doff missions are pretty much the only ones that truly capture what Star Trek was about.
*******************************************

A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
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