Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 437
# 21
11-19-2012, 01:52 PM
Quote:

Projectile Officer (Space): Decreases the cooldown of mines. - Projectile Officer (Space): Decreases the cooldown of TRICO mines. oooh aaah everyone get them
I doubt it will affect the 30 seconds global tricobalt mine cooldown...
They don't, right?
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 22
11-19-2012, 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skurf View Post
Wow, chill out man. If you consider a 5 second viral matrix insta-death then I dunno what to say, because it's not. I don't really see a problem with this doff and the way Borticus described it it seems to me the original VM doff is still the better option for VM users.
Uh no, an entire team or majority of a team being viraled is an extremity of a situation. There will be no variety of abilities used by science captains in pvp either. Viral is god and a must on a build with this doff being available. You can interrupt cross heals indefinitely with a heavy spec into decompiler. Allow me to elaborate:

1) Two virals, global cool down 30 seconds.
targets A, B, C, are viraled because of new doff
2) Targets are viraled again because of old doff
3) Duration of viral is 20 seconds.
4) 10 seconds later, a new wave of virals come in.
5) Oh yeah your team mate also has double viral on his ship.
6) You're amazing if you lived passed this onslaught.


Quote:
Originally Posted by skurf View Post
Anyone running a mine build will be running 2 mines. If you take trics as an example, running 2 mines gets you to the global 30 second cooldown which lines up with dispersal pattern cooldowns, so there's really no reason to run this doff if you're using tric mines + dpb. If you just want to put 1 tric mine on your ship and run these doffs, yeah, it'll give a small boost, but there are surely other doffs and other weapon layouts that would be better.
Whoever runs tric mines tends to rely on them heavily for a reason. Giving them 'more options' isn't exactly a solution to that problem. Why is it that tric torps (which require precision and concise timing skill) kill you as well? Where as trics don't kill their own/friendly targets? It's trash, and anyone that uses that stuff knows it's an easy way to score a kill on someone without even breaking a sweat.

While they worked on these doffs, they ignored the need to fix the problems with PvP. I'm not going to say "good job thanks for the new doffs" when they don't really don't improve pvp in this game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 230
# 23
11-19-2012, 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Back it up with tests and metrics, and we'll be happy to review for tuning
Here is an idea: Set up a test server, put new abilities there first, let players test them for a couple of weeks, tweak them, test them again (if necessary repeat these steps a couple of times) and then put them live.

And provide enough documentation to avoid that players rush to conclusions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 182
# 24
11-19-2012, 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
All equipment in this game is OP then, because it aids you in defeating your enemies, be they AI bags of hitpoints, or skilled fellow players. Would you all rather have cookie-cutter ships with pre-assigned abilities and equipment that leave you with no customization or choice?

This community throws around the term "Overpowered" like confetti. Back it up with tests and metrics, and we'll be happy to review for tuning, rather than tossing around hyperbole as if there's no tomorrow.

(Yes, I recognize the irony in the way that statement is phrased.)

It's very possible that you're correct in some of these cases, and we've come out and admitted as much in the past, and tuned the abilities accordingly. But jumping to conclusions and labeling something as "OP" before you even have the facts on its function will do nothing but hurt the credibility of the communal voice of this subforum.
Can somebody who tested these doffs on tribble please post some numbers on them?? i am sure they have been on tribble for a while for testing. thanks

Quote of the week:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
a pure cannon build is always less effective than original starfleet specs

correct build is as it comes out of the factory
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,523
# 25
11-19-2012, 02:00 PM
ok guys calm down, remember you can only have 5 at once, and these are kinda tame compared to some that are out there now.

if the jumping VM, that will only effect 1 subsytem for 5 seconds, only has a range of 2.5, its only usable if a bunch of targets are stuck in a GW. the other vm doff is 10 times better.

that hull heal over time from AtS sounds cool, but ships that can slot 2 AtS can usually slot 2 AtB, and lets be honest between those 2 choices what is really overpowered. i could see a steamrunner using this doff and using TSS instead of HE. this just opens up additional choices imo, all the HOTs in the world arent gonna save you from the spike that if its gonna kill ya is gonna kill ya

the Aceton Beam doff might finally be a reason to use Aceton Beam, like the vm doff made vm so great. now actual player ships are that much closer to draining energy as well and siphon pods.

the EPtS doff, does that buff your dampeners and sensor skills?

the EPtA doff buffing heals, THAT is awesome, i run EPtA on almost everything with ether damage control or tech doffs. this is proboly worth droping a BFI doff for

the battery doff, thats cool. pun intended. batts have a pretty huge cooldown

the mine doff wont be as useful as the torp doff, unless the global cooldown for launches is removed like it was for torps

i am concerned about the jam doff though. jam is just about the most annoying thing in game, partly because it is usually used by noobs and it just prolongs the inevitable, that they are gunna die. but this doff will just help enable them to be stupid and keep shooting you without drawback. there is also the duel problem, but i think this is solved by saying take off your jam/SNB doffs or i aint accepting your challenge. in an arena though you would have little choice but to evasive spiraling upward, this could be a very overpowered new tactic a spike damaging escorts could exploit

those consultants are gonna be my first permanent ground active roster doffs, very nice
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus

Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 11-19-2012 at 02:10 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,425
# 26
11-19-2012, 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
All equipment in this game is OP then, because it aids you in defeating your enemies, be they AI bags of hitpoints, or skilled fellow players. Would you all rather have cookie-cutter ships with pre-assigned abilities and equipment that leave you with no customization or choice?

This community throws around the term "Overpowered" like confetti. Back it up with tests and metrics, and we'll be happy to review for tuning, rather than tossing around hyperbole as if there's no tomorrow.

(Yes, I recognize the irony in the way that statement is phrased.)

It's very possible that you're correct in some of these cases, and we've come out and admitted as much in the past, and tuned the abilities accordingly. But jumping to conclusions and labeling something as "OP" before you even have the facts on its function will do nothing but hurt the credibility of the communal voice of this subforum.
My feeling is that the best use of DOffs is to take something underpowered and make an overpowered DOff to compensate. Or perhaps "overtuned" rather than "overpowered" is more accurate.

I feel that is what, for instance, the melee DOffs do. They take something that even with recent buffs is exceedingly risky and reward it generously.

I'd like to see hand weapons/pistols get a similar treatment and maybe some energy type DOffs. In space, maybe something for transphasics. On the ground, in particular, maybe proc conversion?

So maybe the ability for each DOff to replace an existing proc with a different one?

Or maybe DOffs with a set bonus that mods the energy type of your weapons?

So you could have something like three DOffs that boost pistol damage and other pistol stats and using all three converts all of your pistol attacks to a different energy type?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 757
# 27
11-19-2012, 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
All equipment in this game is OP then, because it aids you in defeating your enemies, be they AI bags of hitpoints, or skilled fellow players. Would you all rather have cookie-cutter ships with pre-assigned abilities and equipment that leave you with no customization or choice?

This community throws around the term "Overpowered" like confetti. Back it up with tests and metrics, and we'll be happy to review for tuning, rather than tossing around hyperbole as if there's no tomorrow.

(Yes, I recognize the irony in the way that statement is phrased.)

It's very possible that you're correct in some of these cases, and we've come out and admitted as much in the past, and tuned the abilities accordingly. But jumping to conclusions and labeling something as "OP" before you even have the facts on its function will do nothing but hurt the credibility of the communal voice of this subforum.
Is there any way that you could provide us with the stats (proc rates, whether they're unique or not, timers, CDs, etc etc) regarding these, please? That way at least some initial theories can be made before testing them out on Tribble.
The first we heard of getting new PvP maps "soon" was in August of 2010. We're consistently told something will be coming with the "next" update. Absolutely nothing has come to PvP since launch.

I think it's finally time Cryptic stopped stringing us along, don't you?
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 28
11-19-2012, 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post

Back it up with tests and metrics, and we'll be happy to review for tuning, rather than tossing around hyperbole as if there's no tomorrow.
We are tired of doing your job for you. Test your own product before selling it man.

I already tested sub nuke doffs for you. You did nothing about it. 30 second immunity is not the solution to it. Which is why, the consumer (a lot of us) chose not to use it. You did not tune it or make it less over powered. It's ALL of us, against you, we ALL stated this fact to you.

It's time you guys give the customer what they want. We want balance. AND for you to listen to us.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 896
# 29
11-19-2012, 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
Uh no, an entire team or majority of a team being viraled is an extremity of a situation. There will be no variety of abilities used by science captains in pvp either. Viral is god and a must on a build with this doff being available. You can interrupt cross heals indefinitely with a heavy spec into decompiler. Allow me to elaborate:

1) Two virals, global cool down 30 seconds.
targets A, B, C, are viraled because of new doff
2) Targets are viraled again because of old doff
3) Duration of viral is 20 seconds.
4) 10 seconds later, a new wave of virals come in.
5) Oh yeah your team mate also has double viral on his ship.
6) You're amazing if you lived passed this onslaught.
You're jumping to conclusions and transposing a 20% chance at proc to be a 100% chance. There's an 80% chance the proc won't fire so it's not like everyone's going to be viraled for the entire match. Also, if you want to use the old doff in combo with the new doff, you will have to make a sacrifice of which one to use which lowers your chance of either of them firing off. According to Borticus's post, the duration of viral for these chained virals will be 5 seconds, not 20.



Quote:
Whoever runs tric mines tends to rely on them heavily for a reason. Giving them 'more options' isn't exactly a solution to that problem. Why is it that tric torps (which require precision and concise timing skill) kill you as well? Where as trics don't kill their own/friendly targets? It's trash, and anyone that uses that stuff knows it's an easy way to score a kill on someone without even breaking a sweat.

While they worked on these doffs, they ignored the need to fix the problems with PvP. I'm not going to say "good job thanks for the new doffs" when they don't really don't improve pvp in this game.
That's like saying whoever runs 4 DHC's and 3 turrets rely on them heavily for a reason. Well duh. People tend to rely on the weapons they equip, especially when their boff powers revolve around buffing said weapons. We can get into this discussion about tric mines being OP, but we've already had it, and I'd rather not talk in circles. I'll just say that it's been a long time since I've died to tric mines in my escorts, and I've never died to them on my sci or eng toon. I die to cannon rapid fire with DHC's exponentially more than tric mines with dpb, so I guess DHC's are OP and should be nerfed...because you know, I should never have to die in this game by someone using weapons meant to kill me.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,533
# 30
11-19-2012, 02:19 PM
Hmmm all though I like the IDEA behind a mine doff as there is a symmetry there... I have to say I really don't see the point in that one. If you can only have X number out a time anyway so... honestly this is going to be a useless doff.... Even for tric mines. If it has the same 20% chance the torp doffs have you won't be spitting enough of them to reliably proc the doff anyway.

The doff for VM... honestly sounds like junk 2.5k isn't very far to be preying for a 20% chance for a jump... having said that VM is the most popular Sci Skill in PvP... and one of the LEAST popular skills for PvE as most harder PvE enemies seem to have crazy VM resists. So wth. The fact that the System E Doffs... have allowed teams with 2 sci and 2 vms each to be the most annoying thing since 5 man sci rolled perfect sci fleet shields.... makes more VM buffs seem SO targeted at the PvP guys.

The rare particle trace... cool idea would make the PvE kids happy... and NOT SCREW UP PvP why not release an entire pack of those... Crafting boosts / gathering boosts / Driver coil boosts when you use S Slip.

Photonic Studies (Space): Chance for Photonic Shockwave to trigger Photonic Aftershocks on affected targets.
- Have to ask is this doff going to proc from the shockwave torp as well ?

Extra heals 2 weeks after you nerf a bunch of heals.... now if you had come around 2 weeks ago and said Hey here is our DESIGN GOAL over the next 1-2 months of patches... we are moving healing OFF of gear, and pulling in some DOFF based healing... but we are going to try to move that DOFF shield healing around and move it toward hull healing a little more.... Then we would understand what you where doing... right now it looks like you simply don't talk to each other.

IF YOU HAVE A Plan... share enough with the community to not make yourselves look incompetent.

You know things like the aceton I like... There are a bunch of skills that NO one uses in this game cause they suck... why not buff them through doffs. As annoying as VM with doffs is... there is an Opportunity cost and it does make VM a good skill. Not sure why VM needs more doffs though... and have no idea what you guys are thinking with the extra healing again.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
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