Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,618
# 41
11-20-2012, 06:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
but reputation means everything to a person
Think about that for a moment - what you're saying there.

Think about the reputation that comes from what you suggest...

...it may not be what you think it is.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 42
11-20-2012, 06:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
Seems rather arbitrary to the draw the line at p2w.

Even subnuc doff users could be said to trying to win at all costs and are therefore not scrubs.

To me, it seems like you get back what you put into the game. If you keep using FOTM builds, you get that kind back, because people then feel forced to use them to compete. So in the end all we end up with is nonstop unfun gameplay.

It seems like self-policing is a good policy if you want to keep games less saturated by garbage. I agree with the TRH principles mostly.
Yes it might seem very arbitrary, but those skills weren`t provided to you equally as to all players, since you payed to get them. And I think most people knows how they feel about folks paying themselves an andvantage. Problem arises when these p2w thingies become such an advantage that the other party is forced to do the same to keep up. An analogy: Its like the USSR and US massing nukes not to fall behind each other. And all of us knew that if a conflict broke out, no one would win.

So yes, self-policing might be the answer in this age of not earned but bought skill.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 43
11-20-2012, 06:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Think about that for a moment - what you're saying there.

Think about the reputation that comes from what you suggest...

...it may not be what you think it is.
Im having a hard time to think of anything else i would want from this game: To have fun and to win.

But prey, do tell.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,717
# 44
11-20-2012, 06:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
Yes it might seem very arbitrary, but those skills weren`t provided to you equally as to all players, since you payed to get them. And I think most people knows how they feel about folks paying themselves an andvantage. Problem arises when these p2w thingies become such an advantage that the other party is forced to do the same to keep up. An analogy: Its like the USSR and US massing nukes not to fall behind each other. And all of us knew that if a conflict broke out, no one would win.

So yes, self-policing might be the answer in this age of not earned but bought skill.
actually I received a SNB doff from the normal academy general recruitment doff pack. Not sure how that is pay to win. RMC on the other hand you really had to pay for. ..... What about 250 Mio EC Mk XII items? Pay2Win is everywhere, picking one item over the other is just silly.

This doesn't mean that SNb doff is very well balanced, still its no more or less P2W then flying a C-store ship, let alone lockbox or fleet ship.
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,618
# 45
11-20-2012, 06:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
Im having a hard time to think of anything else i would want from this game: To have fun and to win.

But prey, do tell.
I'll break out Tom and Jerry for this.

Tom plays to win - plays to crush. It's the most important thing to him. Everybody knows it. Tom won't cheat - but Tom will do anything up to cheating to win. The most important thing to him is winning.

Jerry plays to have fun - he hopes that everybody has a blast while fighting. He puts time into being as good as he can be and enjoys winning, but he's not willing to risk not having fun by doing certain things. Even people he beats like him - cause everybody having fun is the most important thing to him.

So what kind of reputation does Tom have?
So what kind of reputation does Jerry have?

Tom might think that he's got a reputation as a winner. Others likely see him as a wiener and avoid him like the plague. Whether fighting with him or against him - it's just not fun.

Jerry doesn't give a rat's ass about reputation. People respect him for that - wanting to fight with or against him. Doesn't matter, it's all fun.

Reputation matters...like you said.

It's not a case that Jerry plays to lose in the least...but Jerry doesn't lose like Tom does in playing to win the way Tom does.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 46
11-20-2012, 06:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post
actually I received a SNB doff from the normal academy general recruitment doff pack. Not sure how that is pay to win. RMC on the other hand you really had to pay for. ..... What about 250 Mio EC Mk XII items? Pay2Win is everywhere, picking one item over the other is just silly.

This doesn't mean that SNb doff is very well balanced, still its no more or less P2W then flying a C-store ship, let alone lockbox or fleet ship.
Details, details! You know VERY well what im talking about. I could picked other examples which were exclusivly p2w, and you know that. That Cryptic cant balance their own freaking game is old news.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 47
11-20-2012, 06:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I'll break out Tom and Jerry for this.
Spoken like a true scrub!

But youre forgetting there is a fine line between it all. In this example Tom was back in the days DoB. They played to only win, have their own fun and would even laugh at people in the forums claiming they were cheating. In essence they were just using all the legitimate mechanics provided to them from Cryptic. DoB was a damn good fleet, rivaling if not better then TSI. They even went into arenas without using shields and they still won. Their downfall on the other hand was their less then forthcoming attitude which made all other players in the community despise them.

Although i will say your example holds merit. What most fleets do, and what i suspect they do, is to keep a fine balance between Tom and Jerry. Too much Tom will get you disliked because of an elitist and exploiting attitude, and too much Jerry you go down the scrub line, imposing a mindset of rules that prevents you from winning in the first place.

So i stand by my words regarding reputation: I play to win, and i play to have fun. Me and my fleet actions will speak for themselves.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,618
# 48
11-20-2012, 06:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
So i stand by my words regarding reputation: I play to win, and i play to have fun. Me and my fleet actions will speak for themselves.
Which gives us this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
To the person claiming we (TSI) were using broken stuff to promote change:

Yes thats true and I for once dont hide it. My fleet has long run by the principle that all skills and abilties given you from Cryptic (set aside from skills you p2w) are all legitimate. If one or more sets limitations to it because its not fair and honourable, are simply called scrubs for us.
...while having said this earlier in this same thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
A bug can always be corrected, but yes exploiters should maybe be added as another nusiance.
...and that's how some folks develop a reputation.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,566
# 49
11-20-2012, 06:47 AM
Another awesome video by the evil Klingun Thissler! But in real life is he a film director?
K D F - Killing Disadvantaged Feds
K D F - The evul way to play Sto

Adm. Marcus orders: Punish the evul Klinguns! Punish the evul HOBOs! And nuclearize Qo'nos once and for all!
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 50
11-20-2012, 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Which gives us this...



...while having said this earlier in this same thread...



...and that's how some folks develop a reputation.

Oki, lets use concret examples, and i want examples how I or others in my fleet have been using bugs or obvious gamebreaking exploits.

Have you seen me or any in my fleet use obvious bugs like the vold bug? If you do, tell me at once. How you seen any of us use cheap skills like grav pulse, AMS, grav anchor of late? Heck if Hilbert knew if anyone did, there would be a huge quarrel on vent.

edit: What other fleets or player do is their concern.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!

Last edited by devorasx; 11-20-2012 at 07:01 AM.
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