Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 873
# 71
11-20-2012, 08:16 AM
Fireworks doesn't really cause nerdrage, its more like....

Me - *Dies to other player*
Other player - *Pops fireworks* (throw down the gauntlet)
Me - *My reply*


I like smack talk to be honest, its a healthy part of gaming. Damn people even smack talk towards other players and teams in sporting events etc.
I drink, I vote, and I PvP!

Last edited by bubblygumsworth; 11-20-2012 at 08:18 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 230
# 72
11-20-2012, 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grindsmygears1 View Post
Exactly how is proving FAW was broken and then exploiting the hell out of it skill?
I'm really tired of people who don't understand what happened with New Faw(tm).

The problem with New Faw(tm) was not that it was bugged. On the contrary. The problem was that it was exactly working as intended - in other words massively overpowered.

Now you will say "it hits cloaked ships!" - No, it doesn't. At least as far as I know nobody (inlcuding myself) has ever been able to get FAW to hit cloaked ships in a controlled situation. And if it is so super rare that it cannot be recreated even when one tries really hard, the issue can hardly be problematic for game balance.

And then you will say "but it had 100% accuracy!". True, but also completely irrelevant to the issue. Back at that time the average hit rate for beams was something like 97%. A damage reduction by 3% from correctly calculated accuracy would have had no noticeable impact on the results.

Trick question: FAW is currently bugged. It ignores [Acc] modifiers. Is it unethical to use FAW?

Fun fact: FAW reduces damage output (in some situations...)

If you had paid close attention to TSI during the height of New Faw? you would have noticed that TSI never fielded teams that were built around New Faw?. This can easily be seen by the fact that at that time we did not move players to Sci Cruisers - something which would have been mandatory if one had really tried to use a full New Faw(tm) team (and thus 4+ crusiers) to win serious matches.

It is my firm opinion that New Faw(tm) was completely overpowered, but not because of any of the bugs it had. Sadly we never saw a New Faw(tm) with fixed accuracy that could have proved this.


I also have no idea how Aytanhi came up with the concept of "we have to use it to prove that it is a problem". I certainly did not use New Faw? because of this. I think nobody in TSI did (well, maybe Aytanhi). I used it because I found New Faw? to be fun in my cruiser and even though I pointed out how unbalanced FAW was (especially compared to its previous incarnation) I was perfectly willing to accept a brave New Faw(tm) world where we could have had interesting matches with a completely new dynamic where pressure damage had a huge impact. (Seriously, when was the last time you saw effective pressure damage? This concept has basically disappeared from the game with the FAW [Acc] bug and the increased shield capacities and resists.)

This is also why I lobbied for ceasing to use SS (and keep doing so when it comes to AMS/GravPulse/SNB Doffs and other things) but used New Faw(tm). Whereas the aforementioned abilities in my opinion are detrimental to fun, New Faw(tm) transformed the battlefield into something different that could have lead to interesting premade matches with a new damage/healing dynamic. But it never came to this and TSI never had actual New Faw(tm) premades.

Last edited by fakehilbert; 11-20-2012 at 08:33 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 73
11-20-2012, 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
Is there such a thing?

Lately ive been running into alot of awful and bad players, both klink and fed side and i must admit its getting bad. So i was wondering what sort of behaviour is accepted and not accepted ingame. Frankly ive come across these which is annoying me to some extent:

1. The braggers. The ones who will constantly brag that their the best, but in reality have no skill whatsoever. Examples are people who use exclusivly p2w stuff to win, or use cheap tactics.

2. The accusers. There are always those who accuse X person of cheating. Unfortuantly many hasnt grasped all the abilties and skills one has at its disposal and gets carried away when ones ship goes bom very easy.

3. The smacktalkers. The ones who flames and tries to trigger from others a quarrel or flamefest. Never good, and never ends good. These are pherhaps the ones i despise the most, and if i could without breaking the EULA would makes a name and shame list of.
On the otherhand there must be a fine line between friendly banter and downright hostility.


Offcourse everything one needs to do is simply ignore, but this is a growing problem. So what are peoples thoughts on this?
Thanks, Devoras, for posting these points. I agree with all of your points but only want to respond to something in the first paragraph (I think you will probably agree with what I am going to say anyways).

You say: "Lately ive been running into alot of awful and bad players, both klink and fed side and i must admit its getting bad. So i was wondering what sort of behaviour is accepted and not accepted ingame. Frankly ive come across these which is annoying me to some extent:"

I do not mind running into "awful and bad players." In fact, Boot Camp, which you Devoras have already contributed so much to, is all about bringing in "awful and bad players" to help them improve. We should never judge a player by how s/he performs in a given match but in how s/he improves and learns. If a bad match means that player X learns when/when not to use a subnuc, rsp, etc., then I consider that match to be a personal success for player X, and I can onlyl hope that player X will have the resiliency to return and enter the match again.

Of course, bad players who have some of the more negative attitudes and behaviors you describe (boasting, etc.) remain a problem.

All of us can remember our first PvP matches and how frustrating they were and how bad we played, whether that match took place in STO or elsewhere. I think you will agree with me mostly Devoras, I just don't want people responding to your post to turn this into a "flame the rookie" fest, which should never happen.

Thanks again for this thread.

@gradstudent1
PvP Boot Camp Project Leader Emeritus

Last edited by gradstudent1; 11-20-2012 at 11:27 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 64
# 74
11-20-2012, 11:44 AM
Look, all I'm saying is its pretty hypocritical to call people out saying there playing cheap to win, but then define and call players scrubs when they too are "playing to win" because it doesn't fit your rules of what's acceptable or not. I especially find it funny when tsi, which your apparently a founding member of, does the same things your complaining about. And to your comment of you guys only using things that are used against you, that's not true either. I've been on teams with no carriers or any p2w consoles on it and have been danubed and ams'd to death. I really don't care anymore. At one time I did care and have gotten into arguments with your members in the past for using things that are broken, but I too believe the devs are ultimately to blame for letting this **** persist. You guys, like many other players, are just using the OP crap the devs are shoveling down our throats. ***** at the devs, sure. ***** at the players, what's the point anymore...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,325
# 75
11-20-2012, 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
Seriously, whats with the TSI bashing? Bitter much? Not to mention double standards as most players did the same as we did, if not esscalated it by adding in the p2w, while complaining.

Atleast we made these issues surface so something could be done with it. We left because people resorted to p2w and the heavy dependency of it. There was nothing more to gain from it as people bought their victory instead of earning it like true pvp`s by the abilities given to all fairly. That Cryptic cant balance the game isnt our problem, but we make them AWARE of them.

Try GW2 for a change where you cant buy skills or an easy victory. I bet those who do some will come back to STO crying that they found it too hard.
"We left because people resorted to p2w and the heavy dependency of it"

"Try GW2 for a change where you cant buy skills for an easy victory"

- says the hypocrite that i last saw in a Vesta being flanked by two TSI Oddy healers and a 4th TSI in a Jemmy. Do you even know what you're ****ing talking about?

Last edited by aquitaine985; 11-20-2012 at 12:11 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,774
# 76
11-20-2012, 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fakehilbert View Post
i forgot all about that. ya, never use faw when you have anything other then beam equipped. without that bug, faw lowers the damage to the target your trying to focus on greatly, by fireing shots at everything else as well. with low acc, its not even that great for 1v1 ether.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fakehilbert View Post
(Seriously, when was the last time you saw effective pressure damage? This concept has basically disappeared from the game with the FAW [Acc] bug and the increased shield capacities and resists.)
the last time i used the falaxy lol. pressure damage now is achieved on fed cruisers with high flow cap glider (3+ consoles) single cannons with CRF, and the highest DEM or 2 you can justify equipping. i can burn 1 targets down almost as well as when faw was at its worst
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 64
# 77
11-20-2012, 12:25 PM
Well to be fair, ships and console I think are two different subject. Cstore ship and spin2win lockbox ships are almost a necessity to keep up with power creep. Whether we agree with power creep or not this is just the way it's going to be. To be honest, I wouldn't even care about p2w console's if they stayed on the ship that they came on.

Edit: This is a good example of what I mean though as far as how do you draw the line as to what is cheesy and what isnt

Last edited by grindsmygears1; 11-20-2012 at 12:38 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 64
# 78
11-20-2012, 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
i forgot all about that. ya, never use faw when you have anything other then beam equipped. without that bug, faw lowers the damage to the target your trying to focus on greatly, by fireing shots at everything else as well. with low acc, its not even that great for 1v1 ether.



the last time i used the falaxy lol. pressure damage now is achieved on fed cruisers with high flow cap glider (3+ consoles) single cannons with CRF, and the highest DEM or 2 you can justify equipping. i can burn 1 targets down almost as well as when faw was at its worst
Tac buffed tbr does alright as well
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,737
# 79
11-20-2012, 12:37 PM
Well in their defense, I've never been spammed to the death by TSI's prime team.

The teams with Era generally were clean; we just got whupped.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 64
# 80
11-20-2012, 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
Well in their defense, I've never been spammed to the death by TSI's prime team.

The teams with Era generally were clean; we just got whupped.
I agree. The era of era has long since passed though.
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