Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 27
# 61
11-20-2012, 03:01 PM
It's the plasma dots there were getting me. A torp spread or what have you would hit my steamrunner, and if I was under 50% health when a plasma dot procced I was cooked. At least 1k per tick, and I 've been playing elite STFs for ages now, and that's a new one for me. I don't mind the overall damage though, but the plasma proc shouldn't be quite so severe.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 62
11-20-2012, 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
This issue is still under investigation, so I wanted to pop in and share a few things:

First, a quick confirmation that Battleship and Dreadnought STF ships should now be incapable of landing Critical Hits. This includes Cubes, Tac Cubes, and their Assimilated Klingon counterparts. A similar change will likely be made to ground-based Captain rank STF Borg, if it hasn't already.

Secondly, a few balancing changes will be coming soon that will hopefully once again diminish the chances of being "one-shotted" by Borg NPCs in Space...

1) The damage variance on high-magnitude hits is being cut in half.

This means that, while previously a Plasma Torpedo's damage could vary by as much as 10% +/- its target magnitude, it will soon only be capable of a 5% variance. Since variance is calculated prior to a critter's innate stats and any buffs, what starts as a small % can quickly be magnified into very large numbers. This is why a Borg's Plasma Torpedo may currently hit you for only a couple thousand one second, only to have the next land for tens-of-thousands.

Reducing the overall variance on this type of attack will mean fewer hyper-magnified high-end hits, though their damage floor on these attacks will also be raised concurrently.

2) Borg Plasma DOT magnitudes are being reduced.

Since these DOTs are also magnified by class tables and innate stats, Borg were managing to reliably land very high-magnitude hull DOTs on their targets. Since these ignore shields, we've decided that reducing their overall damage may improve player experience in STF content without significantly diminishing the difficulty and threat of the Borg as a whole.

I'd like to reiterate that the Borgs' ability to deal high-damage DOTs isn't something that recently changed, as far as I can see. It's possible there's been a Software change somewhere that I'm unable to verify, but inquiries into that have yielded no results thus far.

I suspect that the reason players are seeing more Hull Damage, may actually be attributable to the changes made to the Assimilated Ship set. Many players have chosen to try different equipment sets in light of those alterations, and may have been heavily reliant upon the 2-piece Hull Heal proc, which also cleansed Plasma Fires. If this is the case, it may mean that the Borg in general were inaccurately balanced for a specific set of equipment, and more changes will need to be made to bring them in line with other options of play style.

3) The version of Isometric Charge used by NPCs is being nerfed.

Both the damage dealt, and the distance at which the power can "jump" between targets, will be reduced.

Additional changes may be made to balance this ability, but keep in mind that it is used by both the Assimilated Klingons and the Borg Queen's Diamond. It's likely that the latter will see fewer alterations than the former.

And just in case it wasn't clear, none of the above changes should have any effect on the analog abilities used by players.

We'll be checking these changes into QA for testing this week, but I can't guarantee a date on when they'll arrive on Tribble and/or Holodeck. Keep your eyes on the patch notes if you are anxious.
Wait what???

WTF MAN!!!!! Why did you derp the NPCs??? THEY WERE PERFECTLY FINE. Fkin bunch of wimps whining that they can't faceroll the Borg anymore. Dude seriously... wtf...

Don't want bosses to crit, want npcs to be weaker... god you all are starting to sound like rodentmaster.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 97
# 63
11-20-2012, 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post

I'd like to reiterate that the Borgs' ability to deal high-damage DOTs isn't something that recently changed, as far as I can see. It's possible there's been a Software change somewhere that I'm unable to verify, but inquiries into that have yielded no results thus far.


I suspect that the reason players are seeing more Hull Damage, may actually be attributable to the changes made to the Assimilated Ship set. Many players have chosen to try different equipment sets in light of those alterations, and may have been heavily reliant upon the 2-piece Hull Heal proc, which also cleansed Plasma Fires. If this is the case, it may mean that the Borg in general were inaccurately balanced for a specific set of equipment, and more changes will need to be made to bring them in line with other options of play style.
yes. By far the borg set is still the most survivable. It was worse when it was 3pc borg + decent shields, but the borg set completely dominates the others available for survivability. Or at least that has been my experience on Cruisers/Kar'fi/Escorts.


I discovered this because my KDF peghqu only had a borg set, and it was suddenly much more durable than my fed jem'hadar bug with a Maco set.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,102
# 64
11-20-2012, 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by undyingzero View Post
Hopefully they'll also address the insane kinetic damage Borg tractor beams do. I've been consistently destroyed in seconds by the Borg gate and Tac cube's Tractor Beams.
I believe that originates from the Kinetic Cutting Beam. It has an intriguing synergy with Borg tractor beams... 2000 damage if the beam's currently cutting. Not sure if it's a DoT lasting until one of the two beams is offline or a one-off damage proc though.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
And I don't pretend to understand them.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 163
# 65
11-20-2012, 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mellestadsto View Post
It's the plasma dots there were getting me. A torp spread or what have you would hit my steamrunner, and if I was under 50% health when a plasma dot procced I was cooked. At least 1k per tick, and I 've been playing elite STFs for ages now, and that's a new one for me. I don't mind the overall damage though, but the plasma proc shouldn't be quite so severe.
seconded. I even changed up by BOFF layout to debuff the plasma, but cant keep up with it. I get one cleared and another hits.
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 83
# 66
11-20-2012, 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Wait what???

WTF MAN!!!!! Why did you derp the NPCs??? THEY WERE PERFECTLY FINE. Fkin bunch of wimps whining that they can't faceroll the Borg anymore. Dude seriously... wtf...

Don't want bosses to crit, want npcs to be weaker... god you all are starting to sound like rodentmaster.
Yeah cause being one shotted by Borg is totally fair right?

I dont quite agree that taking away the ability to critical hit is the right move. Tone down their critical hit yes but not take it away completely.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 362
# 67
11-20-2012, 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by undyingzero View Post
Hopefully they'll also address the insane kinetic damage Borg tractor beams do. I've been consistently destroyed in seconds by the Borg gate and Tac cube's Tractor Beams.
This can be avoided by staying over five kilometers away from anything with a Tractor Beam. Since there's actually a viable, strategic counter to this, I wouldn't mind if this stayed.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,241
# 68
11-20-2012, 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
bunch of wimps whining that they can't faceroll the Borg anymore.
I never liked facerolling borg but if I can't faceroll them what gives them the right to faceroll me? I don't like dying simply because a borg cube looked at me thank you very much, and you know what I can do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Don't want bosses to crit, want npcs to be weaker... god you all are starting to sound like rodentmaster.
Don't mind critting bosses, don't mind strong NPCs, don't do religion but I also don't find it fun to die because the borg looked in my general direction.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 69
11-20-2012, 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
I never liked facerolling borg but if I can't faceroll them what gives them the right to faceroll me? I don't like dying simply because a borg cube looked at me thank you very much, and you know what I can do.



Don't mind critting bosses, don't mind strong NPCs, don't do religion but I also don't find it fun to die because the borg looked in my general direction.
They are the Borg. You are supposed to FEAR them. I say that being able to faceroll the Borg was downright WRONG. And suddenly having to actually be careful when fighting them is a step in the right direction.

However I will back off a little and say that getting killed in one hit is a little over the top, even with an Oddy specced to survive STFs. Yes, I have been one shotted by 60k regular hits. Those are a little over the top. If I want to die in one hit, I want it to be at least by a crit or if my shields are down, in which case I deserve my death. But getting one shotted by a regular torp is a little much, even though I still say the Borg were fine.

Besides, you still see players who run in, DPB3, APA3, TT, FOMM, and then boom, cube/transformer/gateway/whatever happened to be unlucky enough to get hit by that gone by 4 tricobalt mines critting. Since we can do that to them, it's kind of fair that they can return the favor, but I would prefer it be a result of crits only.

BUT completely derping the NPCs like this is NOT a step in the right direction. It's a step in the "appease the wimps who don't want to know how to build their ships" direction. Not saying all of you are like that, but still, why nerf the NPCs when you can just adjust a few things on your ship, and then suddenly you're fine (if not fine, at least able to survive)?

My final commentary: Yeah, take away the one shots, but NOT IF IT'S AS A RESULT OF A CRIT. PLEASE. Do NOT derp the NPCs like this. I was finally starting to have fun fighting again, cuz the NPCs weren't a joke anymore...
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,241
# 70
11-20-2012, 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
They are the Borg. You are supposed to FEAR them. I say that being able to faceroll the Borg was downright WRONG. And suddenly having to actually be careful when fighting them is a step in the right direction.
Here we agree, facerolling enemies, especially the borg is no fun

Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
However I will back off a little and say that getting killed in one hit is a little over the top, even with an Oddy specced to survive STFs. Yes, I have been one shotted by 60k regular hits. Those are a little over the top. If I want to die in one hit, I want it to be at least by a crit or if my shields are down, in which case I deserve my death. But getting one shotted by a regular torp is a little much, even though I still say the Borg were fine.
I maintain there shouldn't be any one shots in the game full stop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Besides, you still see players who run in, DPB3, APA3, TT, FOMM, and then boom, cube/transformer/gateway/whatever happened to be unlucky enough to get hit by that gone by 4 tricobalt mines critting. Since we can do that to them, it's kind of fair that they can return the favor, but I would prefer it be a result of crits only.
That my friend is called "learning to play", learning how to cause maximum damage in your low tanking escort before you die, I myself am contemplating such a build given how frequently my patrol escort (that you've also faced) get's 1 shotted

Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
BUT completely derping the NPCs like this is NOT a step in the right direction. It's a step in the "appease the wimps who don't want to know how to build their ships" direction. Not saying all of you are like that, but still, why nerf the NPCs when you can just adjust a few things on your ship, and then suddenly you're fine (if not fine, at least able to survive)?
I've already fine tuned all my builds for the best balance of survival and damage output (which has cost me DPS on my escort) I'm afraid I can't do any more for my ships and I still get 1 shotted frequently, as for "derping the NPCs", they've reduced the damage on crits and (with the exception of ISOs) crits only and they have made the DoT more survivable. You can only recover from these things if you have time to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
My final commentary: Yeah, take away the one shots, but NOT IF IT'S AS A RESULT OF A CRIT. PLEASE. Do NOT derp the NPCs like this. I was finally starting to have fun fighting again, cuz the NPCs weren't a joke anymore...
See my last paragraph
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