Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 951
# 111
11-20-2012, 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
Is it payed stuff? Then i oppose, but ONLY because almost everyone else is doing payed stuff, we feel pressured to do the same to not fall behind.

Is it a skill/ability given to all like FAW, HY3 etc? Then by all means go bananas, just like how we did FAW boats, CBP+PSW, PSW chaining, VM+SNB, RSP+FBP etc etc. The list goes on.
We found out good builds in synergy as a TEAM, and made wonders. Why should we then be punished for being smart and clever with builds, when its Cryptic job to balance and develope?
Your logic is hypocritical at best, and pretty much backwards to how the game currently works.

Your "moral standard" as we'll call it is that you promote using anything in the game that people can freely obtain, yet shun equipment that people must pay for because it gives an unfair advantage.

Now, let's take the fleet I'm in for an example (UFP), which is very large and mainly a PvE fleet. I don't know a single person in the fleet that has all purple XII gear and consoles, and that's out of hundreds of people. On the other hand, every single person in the fleet has some type of P2W equipment as you put it, whether it be a fleet ship, zen store ship, or lockbox ship. Nobody is flying a free rear admiral ship, and I highly doubt yourself or anyone in TSI is either.

It seems your evaluation of what is readily available is a bit backwards. Earning enough EC to afford all purple XII gear is much less available than buying a ship with zen, which can be converted from dilithium, which is obtainable by just playing the game. If you lived by your own scruples you'd be flying a freely obtained rear admiral ship with consoles and weapons you earned through mission content. Instead, you're flying a Vesta with expensive consoles and weapons (and I'm assuming doffs) that only a very small percentage of the STO population can afford.

Last edited by skurf; 11-20-2012 at 07:56 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 112
11-20-2012, 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grindsmygears1 View Post
So if the consoles is bought on the exchange with EC and not bought with cash, it's ok then?

edit: and yes, all players have access to it. You simply have to buy it.
No because its still a console you have to spend RL money on getting. Wether you buy it via the exchange, the C-store or get it as a gift is irelevant.
And yes those who are willing to spend money on getting the stuff. But as you maybe have noticed not all are willing to do that, or more likely dont have the funds to do it, so they shall get punished for not paying up? Why should the folks who are not willing to pay get shafted by being vastly outperformed? That would only result in the rich winning and the poor losing.

An anlogy in todays USA. Most of the money (consoles) are owned by the 1%. The remainder 99% dont have anything to go by (since they use the standards in the game) and everyday has to suffer and make sure there is food on the table. So what does this picture tell us?

It tells us that the persons defending the payed consoles will get better and have easy wins, while the rest is loosing cause they cant compete on a competitive level by buying an advanatge. In other words said defenders are saying the 99% deserves to get shafted by the 1% cause they dont wanna pay.

What a grim selfish world we live in.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 113
11-20-2012, 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grindsmygears1 View Post
so you've never run an intrepid?
I did so for 2 and a half freaking years.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 114
11-20-2012, 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skurf View Post
Your logic is hypocritical at best, and pretty much backwards to how the game currently works.

Not at all. I have already argumented that I and my fleet feels pressured to have some P2W to stay comeptitive, while still having a chance to win when most others are liberaly using P2W without scruples at all.

But by all means, revert to 1.2 and i WILL rejoice with such HUGE euphoria!
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 64
# 115
11-20-2012, 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
I did so for 2 and a half freaking years.
and the intrepid did not have an extra ability that other sci ships or any other ship in the game did not?
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 116
11-20-2012, 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grindsmygears1 View Post
and the intrepid did not have an extra ability that other sci ships or any other ship in the game did not?
Oh yes. It has the ablative armour. But guess what!

1. That console CANNOT be used on any other ship besides the Intrepid itself, adhering to my wish that payed consoles follows its native ship and cant be used on any other. Fantastic, thumbs up, great! Cryptic did something right for a change.

2. A PSW disables the skill, so easy to deal with.


So your point was?
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 64
# 117
11-20-2012, 08:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
No because its still a console you have to spend RL money on getting. Wether you buy it via the exchange, the C-store or get it as a gift is irelevant.
And yes those who are willing to spend money on getting the stuff. But as you maybe have noticed not all are willing to do that, or more likely dont have the funds to do it, so they shall get punished for not paying up? Why should the folks who are not willing to pay get shafted by being vastly outperformed? That would only result in the rich winning and the poor losing.

An anlogy in todays USA. Most of the money (consoles) are owned by the 1%. The remainder 99% dont have anything to go by (since they use the standards in the game) and everyday has to suffer and make sure there is food on the table. So what does this picture tell us?

It tells us that the persons defending the payed consoles will get better and have easy wins, while the rest is loosing cause they cant compete on a competitive level by buying an advanatge. In other words said defenders are saying the 99% deserves to get shafted by the 1% cause they dont wanna pay.

What a grim selfish world we live in.
But I dont have to spend RL money on it. I can grind my ass off for dilithium, convert it, and buy it. While someone else has bought zen to trade for dilithium, I have not. How is the fact that someone has bought something that supports the game that you play for free a bad thing? I'm thankful he's bought zen for me to trade for dilithium myself. I guess by your analogy, the 99% who play for free should expect the 1% that pay for the game to not have any advantage or perks, even if you can have the same advantages through grinding and trading your time for zen via dilithium?

Oh what a grim selfish world we live in.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 951
# 118
11-20-2012, 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
No because its still a console you have to spend RL money on getting. Wether you buy it via the exchange, the C-store or get it as a gift is irelevant.
And yes those who are willing to spend money on getting the stuff. But as you maybe have noticed not all are willing to do that, or more likely dont have the funds to do it, so they shall get punished for not paying up? Why should the folks who are not willing to pay get shafted by being vastly outperformed? That would only result in the rich winning and the poor losing.

An anlogy in todays USA. Most of the money (consoles) are owned by the 1%. The remainder 99% dont have anything to go by (since they use the standards in the game) and everyday has to suffer and make sure there is food on the table. So what does this picture tell us?

It tells us that the persons defending the payed consoles will get better and have easy wins, while the rest is loosing cause they cant compete on a competitive level by buying an advanatge. In other words said defenders are saying the 99% deserves to get shafted by the 1% cause they dont wanna pay.

What a grim selfish world we live in.
Except that's not how it works. At all. Let's say there are not people willing or able to spend money on this game, as I'm sure there are many. Let's also assume that there are people more than willing to spend money on this game, which I'm also sure there are many. The people that are willing to spend money put their zen up for sale and all the person that doesn't want to spend money has to do is play the game to earn dilithium then convert it on the exchange. Now everyone can buy the P2W stuff and it's an even playing field. This is how the game actually works.

Your claim that only 1% can afford the consoles is complete and utter nonsense. The only way that someone can't afford to buy zen stuff is if they are both unwilling to pay cash for it and unwilling to play the game to earn dilithium for it. If that's the case, I'd have to question what they're doing in STO at all. It's like people on welfare that don't even look for a job, get paid to sit on their butts by the people that actually work, and then complain that they don't have enough money to buy a new car when their neighbor who works 2 jobs just got a new Fiat. It's not fair I tell you!

And I like how you keep ignoring me because my posts actually make sense while yours are based on logical fallacies. It's ok, I understand. It's pretty hard to argue against someone that's actually based in reality.

Last edited by skurf; 11-20-2012 at 08:18 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 64
# 119
11-20-2012, 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
Oh yes. It has the ablative armour. But guess what!

1. That console CANNOT be used on any other ship besides the Intrepid itself, adhering to my wish that payed consoles follows its native ship and cant be used on any other. Fantastic, thumbs up, great! Cryptic did something right for a change.

2. A PSW disables the skill, so easy to deal with.


So your point was?
Just pointing out that the ship has an EXTRA ability more than other ships which you previously pointed out as being unfair.

2. Grav pulse is even easier to disable with an ensign level ET

Your point was?
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 64
# 120
11-20-2012, 08:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skurf View Post
Except that's not how it works. At all. Let's say there are not people willing or able to spend money on this game, as I'm sure there are many. Let's also assume that there are people more than willing to spend money on this game, which I'm also sure there are many. The people that are willing to spend money put their zen up for sale and all the person that doesn't want to spend money has to do is play the game to earn dilithium then convert it on the exchange. Now everyone can buy the P2W stuff and it's an even playing field. This is how the game actually works.

Your claim that only 1% can afford the consoles is complete and utter nonsense. The only way that someone can't afford to buy zen stuff is if they are both unwilling to pay cash for it and unwilling to play the game to earn dilithium for it. If that's the case, I'd have to question what they're doing in STO at all. It's like people on welfare that don't even look for a job, get paid to sit on their butts by the people that actually work, and then complain that they don't have enough money to buy a new car when their neighbor who works 2 jobs just got a new Fiat. It's not fair I tell you!
well, it is a grim selfish world we live in...
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