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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,691
# 11
11-19-2012, 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
Right, it have no unis ... I must have confused it with the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship that does have them as unis.

Still I rather have two Lt. engs that one Lt. Cmdr. eng station since I cannot run multiple copies, the Steamrunner simply have superior damage control of all escorts except for the Bug Ship.
yup thats true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 749
# 12
11-19-2012, 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baelogventure View Post
The Vesta class, hereafter referred to as the USS Mary Sue, should not have a hangar on-par with a dedicated Carrier such as the Armitage. It's called the Heavy Escort Carrier for a reason. The Mary Sue does not have Carrier anywhere in it's description.

If it were up to fanboys of the Mary Sue, it would have a B'rels turn rate, a Dreadnaughts hull, 3.5 Shield Mod, 5/5 weapon slots, and have all of its console powers innate with 12 console slots.

So what if its hangar's CD cannot be reduced? Perhaps that was intentional on the first Fed Sci Vessel that can mount DHCs that run on AUX instead of WEAP power and is not a Carrier/Flight Deck ship that has a working combat hangar.

Ever think they did it for Balance? Of course not, it is the USS Mary Sue.

Be happy with the OP piece of hardware you have. I would not have stuck a hangar on it at all.
Wow. Rage much?

If you had taken the time to read my OP, you would see I proposed a higher Minimum power level cooldown then other Hangar ships due to the fact that it's a Science Vessel. It already suffers from an agonizingly long launch time from the shuttlebay. I've had fleet-mates tell me that their pets sometimes get destroyed before they even finish the launch animation.

Personally, I think the long launch animation is enough for the Vesta.

Last edited by burstdragon323; 11-19-2012 at 08:27 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 226
# 13
11-21-2012, 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
But if we compare with the 10 console Vesta then yes, we have a problem because its a True science ship with sensor analysis, sub-system targeting and even without considering the Aux DHC and Hangar its already beating the other Science ships, if we add then ... this is were the problem starts.
The aux DHC is a joke compared to my fleet disruptor DHC's/turrets, backed by 4 energy consoles. I slapped a DBB in its place, and it works a lot better. And the Vesta's major issue: Terrible shields, that require augmentation and fiddling to keep up. I've flown the Vesta tac since it came out, a LOT, and I love it, even over my F-TER and HEC, which is saying something major for me, being a tactical. However, it isn't OP.

Perhaps we should get to the truth of this. The Vesta scares that loud-mouthed few, the PvP side. Being that I'm PvE only I couldn't care less what these folks think, and neither should Crytic when it comes to overall balance. Why not just gate their ships for the pluses that most of us enjoy against NPC's and leave it there?

Please Cryptic, don't wash all the differences from the game because a tiny few can't live with the idea of someone, somewhere, having something better.

Last edited by chuckingram; 11-21-2012 at 08:46 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,628
# 14
11-21-2012, 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckingram View Post
The aux DHC is a joke compared to my fleet disruptor DHC's/turrets, backed by 4 energy consoles.
So you are comparing one weapon to Fleet variants of how many? you certainly are not comparing one per one and even if we can mount 3 Aux DHCs its not going to beat a Fleet weapon since it shouldnt to begin with.

Quote:
I slapped a DBB in its place, and it works a lot better.
... Really? That it?

The only reason to keep the Aux DHCs is because its free and because it takes power from Aux, running at full weapons means its being starved.

Considering your "I run with DHCs and Turrets" statement it seems you are throwing everything into weapons, not really a surprise a Dual Beam will work "a lot better" when you are running on 125 weapons.

Quote:
And the Vesta's major issue: Terrible shields, that require augmentation and fiddling to keep up. I've flown the Vesta tac since it came out, a LOT, and I love it, even over my F-TER and HEC, which is saying something major for me, being a tactical. However, it isn't OP.
Ok ... let me get this ...

The Vesta, that have the highest non-Fleet version Shield Modifier have terrible shields ...

....

No, it does not ... the only ships that have better shields are Fleet Science ships and Lockbox ships since no ship have "terrible shields" unless their modifier is low, Vesta have 1.35 modifier were the only ships that get a higher one are Ft. Recon, Ft. DSSv, Ft. ARV, Ft. LRSV, Orb Weaver, Recluse and Wells.

That is, Fleet Ships and Lockbox ships. that are not generally available.

Quote:
Perhaps we should get to the truth of this. The Vesta scares that loud-mouthed few, the PvP side. Being that I'm PvE only I couldn't care less what these folks think, and neither should Crytic when it comes to overall balance. Why not just gate their ships for the pluses that most of us enjoy against NPC's and leave it there?
Or maybe because they know what it can actually do with in the right hands.

Quote:
Please Cryptic, don't wash all the differences from the game because a tiny few can't live with the idea of someone, somewhere, having something better.
Oh please.

The Vesta made the Interpid-R irrelevant, even worst that the Odyssey did to the Galaxy-R, I can understand something being "better" because of tiers but I see two ships that can fill the same position, are at the same tier and then look at them closer and see one is inherit superior in several areas and equal in the rest ... this is not balance, this is one ship being just better.

Not the Vesta have its issues, the Aux DHC is pretty much there for people that run SCIENCE ships and so run on High Aux, if you are a escort jock tac then you have no real use for the Vesta if you continue to fly it as if its a HEC since its not.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 694
# 15
11-21-2012, 09:37 AM
My only complaint about the ship is it takes forever to deploy pets....

I guess if Fed side had some sort of Frigate it would negate the issue. Fighters blow up so frequently, I never had this issue with my Recluse or Kar'fi.

The Vesta feels "Gated"..... my only question is why does the HEC pop out pets faster then a Vesta?
I'll stop kicking that horse when the bugs fixed. Until then as a paying consumer, I will voice my opinion.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 226
# 16
11-21-2012, 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
So you are comparing one weapon to Fleet variants of how many? you certainly are not comparing one per one and even if we can mount 3 Aux DHCs its not going to beat a Fleet weapon since it shouldnt to begin with.
The aux DHC should have some sort of usage bonus beyond where it pulls power from. It doesn't, which is sad considering the fact that it was an advertised feature. Also, you may want to consider limiting the breachy thing. If you weren't such a know-it-all this might have actually turned into a conversation, heaven forbid.

Quote:
The only reason to keep the Aux DHCs is because its free and because it takes power from Aux, running at full weapons means its being starved.
Really?

Quote:
Considering your "I run with DHCs and Turrets" statement it seems you are throwing everything into weapons, not really a surprise a Dual Beam will work "a lot better" when you are running on 125 weapons.
Why the double quotes? Surely you aren't butt-stabbed over a contrary opinion?

Quote:
Ok ... let me get this ...

The Vesta, that have the highest non-Fleet version Shield Modifier have terrible shields ...
Do you have a Vesta tac, or is this all conjecture? (rhetorical question)

Quote:
No, it does not ...
Yes, the Vesta TACTICAL stock shields DO suck when flown anywhere near like a TACTICAL ship should be flown. I've corrected that issue though, so all is good, for me at least.

Quote:
Oh please. -SNIP- (Too breezy and arrogant to be considered relevant to my post)
Happy Thanksgiving...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 226
# 17
11-21-2012, 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsyblade View Post
The Vesta feels "Gated"..... my only question is why does the HEC pop out pets faster then a Vesta?
My guess is that the devs thought deploying Danubes rapidly (as quickly as the HEC) would make the Vesta,... wait for it,... OP in PvP. You're right though, it seems like a silly limitation in comparison..
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,628
# 18
11-21-2012, 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckingram View Post
The aux DHC should have some sort of usage bonus beyond where it pulls power from. It doesn't, which is sad considering the fact that it was an advertised feature. Also, you may want to consider limiting the breachy thing. If you weren't such a know-it-all this might have actually turned into a conversation, heaven forbid.
I run on high Aux with then, it seems they do better that my handicapped beam weapons since they are being run at about the same power levels.

Point of the Aux DHC is that it does not makes the power balancing even more of a issue, in order for Science ships to work they have to run on high Aux so they cannot run on high Aux, high Shields and high Weapons so its Weapons that will not run on high since Shields have to be run on high due to Science ships lacking the Hull of cruisers and the speed (defense) of escorts.

Quote:
Really?
Really, it does not drain power from weapons meaning its not weapon power that is being drained when its being fired, its not a -10 to weapons when you are using it along with your other energy weapons.

Quote:
Why the double quotes? Surely you aren't butt-stabbed over a contrary opinion?
Over what? I know it cannot do the DPS of a escort can even if the Aux DHCs can do burst damage pretty well but sustainable DPS? not really ... works on high Aux builds because it gets everything from it without a cost as run on High Aux means you can forget about weapon power and its either Torpedo boats build or very specialized support builds that do that.

Quote:
Do you have a Vesta tac, or is this all conjecture? (rhetorical question)

Yes, the Vesta TACTICAL stock shields DO suck when flown anywhere near like a TACTICAL ship should be flown. I've corrected that issue though, so all is good, for me at least.
I have the pack but the modifier is the same for all hulls.

This is not conjecture as the modifier is on the description, Science ships always had the highest Shield modifiers and as I said, what escorts get is high depend because they are faster (speed=defense, faster you go the higher is the defense) and of course if you fly a Vesta, any Vesta as if its a Escort its not going to work, even the Escorts have more hull that a Science ship.

And of course the "stock shields" suck, they are common Shield Array Mk X, stock equipment is just there and should be replaced as soon as possible.

Now put a M.A.C.O. Resilient Shield Array Mk XII on it, due to the modifier its by the ship alone 11k, then we have skills and I will not be surprised if people can get it to over 15k shields.

The same applies to the Tactical Odyssey, even if the description says so its still deep down the ship type, a Odyssey is always a Cruiser and a Vesta is always a science ship, the only thing you get is a slightly different console arrangement and a slightly different bonus power.

In the Tactical Vesta you just get 4 Tactical Console slots and +5 to weapons/ +10 to aux that is pretty underwhelming compared to other Escorts if you try to fly it as such.

Quote:
Happy Thanksgiving...
To you as well

Last edited by f2pdrakron; 11-21-2012 at 12:59 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 374
# 19
11-22-2012, 09:29 PM
@baelogventure

Explain to me how the Vesta is a mary sue ship... considing that it is a multi-mission ship might be the only way but when you look at the different roles it can fill you can always find a ship that fits that role better.....

unless you are of course talking about actually using it as a science ship... and its at that point that I would like to point out that the Aux DHC's actually work better for a tac captain and build so I dont bother with them since I am a science captain... you took one look at my build in another thread and called it a mary sue build without offering the least bit of facts or numbers to back up your claim..... the vesta science ship that I use fills the crowd control role very nicely.... and I can definately find a better science ship to use in that role.... Fleet Deep Space Science Vessel for 1

to say that the vesta is not a carrier thats utter twaddlespeak....

it has a hangar deck... therefore its a carrier of some form....

I'll break it down for you like this

Atrox = Fleet Carrier CV ( usually the flagship of a fleet or taskforce )
Armatage = Escort Carrier CVE ( relagated to Convoy escort and smaller taskforces )
Vesta = Light Carrier CVL ( supports smaller taskforces and has the speed to keep up )

and this I thought up by just doing a little research into the U.S. Navy and the birth of the Aircraft Carrier

so many people wanna jump on the bandwagon of the ship being so OP and Mary Sue ish (im gonna guess that those individuals just dont have the ship themselves and are jealous)

to compare, the Fleet DSSV has more Hull and Higher Shields than the Vesta... has the same (or damned close to it) turn rate as the vesta, has the same number of consoles... altho the FDSSV has 3 eng 5 sci and 2 tac where as the Vesta I use has 2 eng 5 sci and 3 tac, so I in my vesta am sacrificing Hull and Shield Strength for the ability to mount cannons (and I dont bother with cannons on a science ship) and have a flight deck....

I have looked at the various roles these ships can fill and I have yet to run into a case where there is NOT some other ship that does the job "better" I see the Vesta as a jack of all trades and a master of none.... so in my opinion its NOT a Mary Sue ship. It is a ship that has quite a bit of flexability to allow most players to outfit it to to fit thier individual play style

so to sum up you start giving me instances and numbers to back up your claim that the ship is OP and that its a Mary Sue ship or kindly STFU....

thank you I will now get down off of my soapbox
Major Xi'Zzin
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 749
# 20
11-23-2012, 04:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by andoriansrus View Post
@baelogventure

Explain to me how the Vesta is a mary sue ship... considing that it is a multi-mission ship might be the only way but when you look at the different roles it can fill you can always find a ship that fits that role better.....

unless you are of course talking about actually using it as a science ship... and its at that point that I would like to point out that the Aux DHC's actually work better for a tac captain and build so I dont bother with them since I am a science captain... you took one look at my build in another thread and called it a mary sue build without offering the least bit of facts or numbers to back up your claim..... the vesta science ship that I use fills the crowd control role very nicely.... and I can definately find a better science ship to use in that role.... Fleet Deep Space Science Vessel for 1

to say that the vesta is not a carrier thats utter twaddlespeak....

it has a hangar deck... therefore its a carrier of some form....

I'll break it down for you like this

Atrox = Fleet Carrier CV ( usually the flagship of a fleet or taskforce )
Armatage = Escort Carrier CVE ( relagated to Convoy escort and smaller taskforces )
Vesta = Light Carrier CVL ( supports smaller taskforces and has the speed to keep up )

and this I thought up by just doing a little research into the U.S. Navy and the birth of the Aircraft Carrier

so many people wanna jump on the bandwagon of the ship being so OP and Mary Sue ish (im gonna guess that those individuals just dont have the ship themselves and are jealous)

to compare, the Fleet DSSV has more Hull and Higher Shields than the Vesta... has the same (or damned close to it) turn rate as the vesta, has the same number of consoles... altho the FDSSV has 3 eng 5 sci and 2 tac where as the Vesta I use has 2 eng 5 sci and 3 tac, so I in my vesta am sacrificing Hull and Shield Strength for the ability to mount cannons (and I dont bother with cannons on a science ship) and have a flight deck....

I have looked at the various roles these ships can fill and I have yet to run into a case where there is NOT some other ship that does the job "better" I see the Vesta as a jack of all trades and a master of none.... so in my opinion its NOT a Mary Sue ship. It is a ship that has quite a bit of flexability to allow most players to outfit it to to fit thier individual play style

so to sum up you start giving me instances and numbers to back up your claim that the ship is OP and that its a Mary Sue ship or kindly STFU....

thank you I will now get down off of my soapbox
Hear, hear!

I plan on asking about the hangar cooldown and a possible solution/compromise in the nect ask cryptic.
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