Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 447
# 41
11-22-2012, 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by duaths1 View Post
- do not fck with me, im blond (this is a threat)
I know that you will not get banned for saying this and that completely proves my initial contention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duaths1 View Post
- you see, cryptic made an error by allowing 46 (have read this) toons per account.
so you can just get 46* 2480 Dill for a daily lore and contraband. EVEN if this OP post is a paid post/customer research, everybody does see the exploit in this. you don't?

i understand there are people which are ABLE to play 10 hours a day, but this is not healthy and these people are not working. They are also getting everything for free.
46 character slots is not free. 46 character slots (six free, ten four-slot upgrades @ 1065 Zen ea.) has a book value of over $600.

$600 is not "free", and trying to argue it is, is just PWE trying to devalue the customer's money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duaths1 View Post
Because people which do not have the dollar and are in DESPERATE need of dill ( like you seem to be) do not pay this game to stay alive. People like me do.
So it's your argument that only people with no lives refuse to feed PWE money for Zen. Lawl.

Last edited by aestu; 11-22-2012 at 09:48 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 42
11-22-2012, 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
As Mr. Stahl told us himself the average player was refining less than 2000 a day. Clearly, hardcore farmers are an extreme minority.

The basic problem here is that dilithium is time-gated and nothing else really is. If you give me a choice between working on a reward that I can ONLY earn now, and one that's available any time, guess which one I'm going to max out? Making dil easy to get means I then have more time, once I've got my dilithium, to play everything else which doesn't give dilithium. Easy dil = more variety. The obvious solution to my mind is to make everything give a relevant amount of dil, but apparently they do not feel that way.
And then they turned around and said that the reason they removed a lot of the dilithium generation methods was because of exactly the reason I said.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 447
# 43
11-22-2012, 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
And then they turned around and said that the reason they removed a lot of the dilithium generation methods was because of exactly the reason I said.
The reason they removed Dil gen methods was the same reason they added more sinks and the same reason the Dil exchange is plummeting which was to sell more Zen and make more $$$ right now.

Insulting other posters doesn't change that.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,874
# 44
11-22-2012, 10:56 AM
I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the logic behind eliminating Dilithium "Exploits" while complaining that players aren't refining enough Dilithium. adding any more caps let alone an account wide one seems counterproductive to me if they actually want players to refine more.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 520
# 45
11-22-2012, 11:27 AM
This thread is a BS argument by someone who prefers to run one character and wants to punish anyone who runs more because that's not to his personal taste. Anything NOT to his taste of course, must be stopped. A lot of these sort of "arguments" crop up by they never have any rational behind them other than "I don't like that, you can't have it."

There is already a dilithium cap of 8K per character and you have to grind that character for a couple of hours to get it. More than 3 or so and you are doing nothing else with you play time that day and, if that's what you want to do--fine. Your business.

People who play multiple characters aren't hurting you; they aren't getting free and unfair advantages over you. Don't be so narcissistic that you think you have a right and responsibility to police they way everybody else does things just for the sake of doing it.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,176
# 46
11-22-2012, 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aestu View Post
I know that you will not get banned for saying this and that completely proves my initial contention.



46 character slots is not free. 46 character slots (six free, ten four-slot upgrades @ 1065 Zen ea.) has a book value of over $600.

$600 is not "free", and trying to argue it is, is just PWE trying to devalue the customer's money.


So it's your argument that only people with no lives refuse to feed PWE money for Zen. Lawl.
for what should i be banned? threatening you with me being blond?

46 char slots. Noone who PLAYS the game for what it is = a Star Trek game = would USE 46 slots anyway..

someone once calculated that the slots can be earned for free in some <40 days of playing.

Does Zen bought through Dill has a book value? Now this is an interesting question.

Because the Zen EARNED ingame has no book value.

Then there is Zen given out freely for Lifers and Golds.. Some's Lifers Zen is "free" too.

Only the Zen acquired with CASH has value.

A GAMER with a job and family which plays 5 toons and is actively participating in a fleet buys some stuff from the store, buys Zen, convert to dill, and then gives earned/buyed dill to fleet projects/equipment.

A GRINDER does grind Dill, converts, buys stuff from store "for free", exploits the system, grinds for lockbox ships, sells them on e-bay... etc.. that is why he needs 46 toons.

Yes, there is a thin line between these 2, but where is it exactly?
We need all types of players ingame - f2p grinders, lottery lovers, trekkies, hard-workers,... ,but let's not go into extremes. Grinding daily 46 toons of is an extreme.

I do not say the 30k is the optimal limit, but it is a number I personally could live with.

edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajstoner View Post
People who play multiple characters aren't hurting you; they aren't getting free and unfair advantages over you. Don't be so narcissistic that you think you have a right and responsibility to police they way everybody else does things just for the sake of doing it.
IMHO it is not a question of playing multiple toons, but the problem of grinders grinding for free dill.
i do play multiple toons too, and still, if the dill refine limit was nicely set - let's say

16k pro account with 2 slots - now in place,
32k for accounts with 4 slots - now in place,
40k for 6 slots - now 8x6 = 48k,
58k for 8 slots - now 8x8=64k,
64k for account with more than 8 slots - now maximum 8x46 k ??? for contraband mission ??? FAIR ???,

and you could earn that amount on ANY toon... would it not be nice?

Join the premiere Romulan community now!

Last edited by duaths1; 11-22-2012 at 12:00 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,691
# 47
11-22-2012, 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by duaths1 View Post
...... ,but let's not go into extremes. Grinding daily 46 toons of is an extreme.
I do not think Cryptic shares your opinion on "extremes" being bad, how many boxes was it you had to open on average to get a Lockbox ship? How much was the average cost of those ships? Those values seem pretty extreme to me.....

Sadly, in Cryptic's new single character centric revenue model I do see them making alts even less desirable. As for those claiming having several alts as "exploitive" lets not forget Cryptic itself took advantage of the clickies to prop up interest in Starbases by adding FMs to the Foundry wrapper. In effect all but giving it a stamp of approval. For them to now say they hoped players would police themselves sounds.... deceptive and duplicitous at best.

Last edited by skyranger1414; 11-22-2012 at 12:07 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,176
# 48
11-22-2012, 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
I do not think Cryptic shares your opinion on "extremes" being bad, how many boxes was it you had to open on average to get a Lockbox ship? How much was the average cost of those ships? Those values seem pretty extreme to me......
- i didn't open boxes to buy ships. i did open boxes to get lobi for the 2 KDF skirts though
- bought the keys off the exchange for EC's, ships the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
Sadly, in Cryptic's new single character centric revenue model I do see them making alts even less desirable. As for those claiming having several alts as "exploitive" lets not forget Cryptic itself took advantage of the clickies to prop up interest in Starbases by adding FMs to the Foundry wrapper. In effect all but giving it a stamp of approval. For them to now say they hoped players would police themselves sounds.... deceptive and duplicitous at best.
Deceptive?
Cryptic's revenue model and their strategy is IMO basically non existent or ever evolving (choose what suits you).
The basic rule is to make money.

I do not care about Dill, because i do not have a problem with occasionally buying some 2k Zen, and i already have all "have to have" stuff i need.

But FM's are BIG issue, cause with removing the free 50 FM's pro toon they are causing the small fleets to selfdestruct and to be assimilated by bigger fleets.
Which in fact is a loss of revenue for them because there are not so many sinks pro toon in a bigger fleet. That is why i supposed to give us FREE 50 FM's pro toon just for a daily log-in.

And because i really wanted to build a fleet starbase just with a friend of mine Now this idea is gone with the wind and i am back in business - in the small time window i do have for my daily game.

Join the premiere Romulan community now!

Last edited by duaths1; 11-22-2012 at 01:06 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 688
# 49
11-22-2012, 01:56 PM
Pre-Season 7, there would've been something to say for an accountwide dilithium cap instead of (not in addition to) a per character cap, even if the new total ended up being a little less overall than the old total, for players like me, who do do the alt-hopping thing. Just cause I get more of a choice this way.

Post-Season 7, that benefit has been greatly diminished by the average time it takes to accumulate dilithium having been nerfed considerably. We've lost the clicker and B'Tran (okay), we've reduced income from STFs (ESTFs down 140 dilithium, no more exchangable EDC, tech or salvage (the BNPs compensate only the lost EDCs), and no more boosted wednesdays.), FAs might've replaced them but were slashed, the PvE dailies lost their Dilithium, even the Mirror Event is now marked as awarding XP only, if I recall right, and we've no reason to believe they're done.

So while before season 7, I would've gladly accepted say 20,000 accountwide (standard subscription 3-char account) + 4,000 for every additional character slot in use, now those numbers are no longer reasonably achievable, and I would not quietly tolerate any conversion from character-based to account-wide refinement caps where the total amount of dilithium that could be refined by an account is reduced in any way whatsoever.

IE, with my 15 character slots, I'd expect to see my account cap be 120,000 dilithium, or your (figurative) lawn on fire. Add a reduced account cap and maintain the per-character limits, and there'll be (figurative) people rolling around in the (figurative) flames.

Do I make that 120,000 cap? Not by a long shot. Halfway? Not even close. So why can't we slash it? Cause it's a matter of principle now, and before you ask.
prin-ci-ple   [prin-suh-puhl]
noun

guiding sense of the requirements and obligations of right conduct: a person of principle.
So they made a mistake. Big whoop. Tell me when they don't make a mistake. It seems to be the one thing they are truly capable excelling at. But if we're going to keep idly letting them screw us over time and again to compensate for their own ineptitudes and lack of foresight, what motivation could they possibly have to invest some time, thought and effort into avoiding making any more mistakes? Only when it hurts them do they have a real reason to do better. These are supposed to be the professionals. They're not asked to do this for free. Not phoning it in, isn't an outrageous expectation for us to hold.

So in short:

This isn't little league. You lost, Timmy. Now quit crying, and do better next time.
Reave

Last edited by hrisvalar; 11-22-2012 at 02:18 PM. Reason: Informed it needed a little less (figurative) angry blue man.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,427
# 50
11-22-2012, 05:27 PM
The suggestion for an account wide dilithium limit is the most rediculous thing I've ever heard of. The reduction in dilithium availability has already made alt dilithium farming hard for people. To place a cap on it would be sublimely absurd.

People who read the forums would see that I have been a HUGE supporter of Season 7. I've believed that Season 7 has been a big plus for STO as a whole.

PWE, if this suggestion was made by a ghost account then shame on you. If such a change was implemented then you'd be slitting your own throat. You've already lost the support of many over Season 7. This would make you lose the support of those left. People like me.
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