Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,781
# 11
11-24-2012, 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewstelamon01 View Post
And people wonder why many games are going to F2P. Here's a hint: It's not always because they're failboats. People really do spend a hell of a lot more on a F2P game than on sub based games.

One player spending about 3 1/2 years worth of sub fees in a single month.
funny wow still p2p eveonline is still f2p guess this like that saying beauty is in the eye of the beholder
Quote:
Originally Posted by macronius View Post
This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 441
# 12
11-24-2012, 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daan2006 View Post
funny wow still p2p eveonline is still f2p guess this like that saying beauty is in the eye of the beholder
Some games are P2P because they're stubbornly so, or they have a riduculously large playerbase and don't have to go F2P. Doesn't mean they're superior just because they charge people for the privilege of playing.

In the end, it's just an alternate revenue model with its pros and cons.
****
Lagging, D/Cing, or rubberbanding? Here's some help.

Current ships: A lot. RTR 15 National Championships....and counting
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,781
# 13
11-24-2012, 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewstelamon01 View Post
Some games are P2P because they're stubbornly so, or they have a riduculously large playerbase and don't have to go F2P. Doesn't mean they're superior just because they charge people for the privilege of playing.

In the end, it's just an alternate revenue model with its pros and cons.
or could it be they put out content and ppl find that as a reason to still pay as i said ones before you want mmos that put out content you going to pay for them you want mmos that have more Lockboxes and cstore stuff you get F2P mmos like all of PWE mmos........
Quote:
Originally Posted by macronius View Post
This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.

Last edited by daan2006; 11-24-2012 at 05:22 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 440
# 14
11-24-2012, 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaz200565 View Post
Vesta ships pack.= Overpriced.
All projects,personal,starbase and embassy.=Extremely Expensive.
Cost of projects then buying items after projects are done. Totally not fair.
The dilithium allowances are far too small,and we are forced to buy it,to get anywhere in this game.This is despite STO being a free game,so we are told.
Free game???? I think not.
It seems to me that the costs involved are getting worse,and it does not matter if a fleet is big or small. The prices generally are far too high.
I hope that Dan Stahl and Mr Branflakes themselves see this,and i hope they realise,that STO will lose people,as they will be priced out of this game.

This whole fleet idea was a big mistake,sadly there are many in fleets who don't bother contributing,and they sit back and do nothing most of the time,while others end up carrying them so to speak.
Personally if it were ever possible,i would run a fleet with just myself and duty officers as fleet staff. end result is more efficient progress and no arguements with other players in this game,about who contributes what and general costs etc.
What I like about STO is you don't have to pay a dime to play the game.
If you don't pay anything in this game, you will still get a great experience.

But, if you want a better experience, it won't break the bank.
Sure there are threads in this forum that indicate some frustation with various aspects of the game, but in the end it's still a solid game.

I have minor gripes with this game, but not enough to banish it from my computer.
NO to ARC...Keep it in Beta
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 441
# 15
11-24-2012, 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daan2006 View Post
or could it be they put out content and ppl find that as a reason to still pay as i said ones before you want game that put out content you going to pay for them you want game that have more Lockboxes and cstore stuff you get F2P games like all of
PWE game........
Again, alternate revenue model. F2P models have to depend on cash shop revenue--it's a simple fact of the model.

Subscription models are inherently self-limiting: they can collect no less than their basic subscription fee and no more than that fee plus the fees (usually a dollar or two) for the maximum amount of additional character slots allowed. This means that they depend on an extremely large subscriber base--and few companies command one of that size. Furthermore, those companies usually only have one MMO and can therefore devote the full resources of their staff to producing more content, and can therefore do so at a more prolific pace (usually four to six major updates in a year, depending on size). They also do not depend on having a parent studio release a version for them to localize for a NA market, as most Eastern-based MMOs do.

F2P games, on the other hand, are usually developed by "market saturators", defined as companies that release several MMOs at once, usually only differing in theme or some variant in mechanics. Most of these companies are Asian in origin and therefore their titles require localization for English speaking players and thus this adds time to the release intervals for new content. These companies generally have several MMOs running at once to manage, and therefore the company suffers from the fact that they do not have as much staff to devote to content updates, and therefore content updates are not released as frequently (maybe two, three major updates over the course of a year). These companies are usually dependent on "cash shop" revenue models, and thus, their revenue can vary greatly. Most become "P2W" simply because that's what marketing data tells them that players will buy.

For a PWE game, STO actually receives updates at a more frequent pace than most other PWE titles. STO has the advantage of being developed in NA studios, rather than China and then ported over to the NA market. Therefore, they can skip the process of localization (at least in the NA market) and go directly to release.

Yeah, the ships are expensive, but for a game that still has yet to develop any real PvP play, they're also largely unnecessary.

Optional fleet projects are just that--optional. If you don't have or don't want to use the funds to do them, you don't have to. Required projects....now that's a different story.

But let us not forget that this game is published and developed by an entity of a public traded company. This means that they answer to stockholders and investors, and the wishes of the players and the stockholders/investors are usually worlds apart.
****
Lagging, D/Cing, or rubberbanding? Here's some help.

Current ships: A lot. RTR 15 National Championships....and counting
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,781
# 16
11-24-2012, 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewstelamon01 View Post
Again, alternate revenue model. F2P models have to depend on cash shop revenue--it's a simple fact of the model.

Subscription models are inherently self-limiting: they can collect no less than their basic subscription fee and no more than that fee plus the fees (usually a dollar or two) for the maximum amount of additional character slots allowed. This means that they depend on an extremely large subscriber base--and few companies command one of that size. Furthermore, those companies usually only have one MMO and can therefore devote the full resources of their staff to producing more content, and can therefore do so at a more prolific pace (usually four to six major updates in a year, depending on size). They also do not depend on having a parent studio release a version for them to localize for a NA market, as most Eastern-based MMOs do.

F2P games, on the other hand, are usually developed by "market saturators", defined as companies that release several MMOs at once, usually only differing in theme or some variant in mechanics. Most of these companies are Asian in origin and therefore their titles require localization for English speaking players and thus this adds time to the release intervals for new content. These companies generally have several MMOs running at once to manage, and therefore the company suffers from the fact that they do not have as much staff to devote to content updates, and therefore content updates are not released as frequently (maybe two, three major updates over the course of a year). These companies are usually dependent on "cash shop" revenue models, and thus, their revenue can vary greatly. Most become "P2W" simply because that's what marketing data tells them that players will buy.

For a PWE game, STO actually receives updates at a more frequent pace than most other PWE titles. STO has the advantage of being developed in NA studios, rather than China and then ported over to the NA market. Therefore, they can skip the process of localization (at least in the NA market) and go directly to release.

Yeah, the ships are expensive, but for a game that still has yet to develop any real PvP play, they're also largely unnecessary.

Optional fleet projects are just that--optional. If you don't have or don't want to use the funds to do them, you don't have to. Required projects....now that's a different story.

But let us not forget that this game is published and developed by an entity of a public traded company. This means that they answer to stockholders and investors, and the wishes of the players and the stockholders/investors are usually worlds apart.
sorry but im not going to look at all this why you think games should all be F2P games go F2P because they are eicp fails and why sto went f2p only reason PWE mmos do so good well they out number most of the world if you get my hint
Quote:
Originally Posted by macronius View Post
This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 441
# 17
11-24-2012, 05:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daan2006 View Post
sorry but im not going to look at all this why you think games should all be F2P games go F2P because they are eicp fails and why sto went f2p only reason PWE mmos do so good well they out number most of the world if you get my hint
Not my fault that you can't be bothered to read the facts.

A P2P game is not automatically superior. P2P simply means that a fee is charged to be able to play the game. Quality does not mean a thing--there have been crappy P2P games as well as crappy F2P games. I've been playing MMOs long enough to see both.

Just off the top of my head, crappy and/or failed sub based games: Phantasy Star Universe. Hellgate London. Tabula Rasa.

Simply because the largest MMO happens to be pay-to-play does not mean that the model is necessarily superior.


An F2P game generates more revenue per player than a P2P game because a P2P game cannot collect more per player than its subscription fee per player--unless it goes hybrid and adds a cash shop. The only games that can stay viable as a sub based model are games with an extensive player base, and usually by companies that produce only that one game.

For the record, STO is a hybrid F2P. The option to subscribe exists but the requirement to pay a fee has been removed, in line with PWE's business modus operandi.

Games go F2P not because they are "epic fails" but because the F2P model has been statistically proven to generate more revenue--and for the companies' higher management and/or stockholder and investors, money is what matters.

That doesn't mean the P2P model sucks or the F2P model is a winner. Nor have I stated that all games should go F2P. They're simply two sides of the same coin.

Still, money talks, and the F2P model has shown that it can generate that.
****
Lagging, D/Cing, or rubberbanding? Here's some help.

Current ships: A lot. RTR 15 National Championships....and counting

Last edited by lewstelamon01; 11-24-2012 at 06:05 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,781
# 18
11-24-2012, 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewstelamon01 View Post
Not my fault that you can't be bothered to read the facts.

Dude, a P2P game is not automatically superior. That seems to be your thinking. Again, please do the math.

An F2P game generates more revenue per player than a P2P game because a P2P game cannot collect more per player than its subscription fee per player--unless it goes hybrid and adds a cash shop. The only games that can stay viable as a sub based model are games with an extensive player base, and usually by companies that produce only that one game.

For the record, STO is a hybrid F2P. The option to subscribe exists but the requirement to pay a fee has been removed, in line with PWE's business modus operandi.

Games go F2P not because they are "epic fails" but because the F2P model has been statistically proven to generate more revenue--and for the companies' higher management and/or stockholder and investors, money is what matters.

That doesn't mean the P2P model sucks or the F2P model is a winner, they're simply two sides of the same coin.

Still, money talks, and the F2P model has shown that it can generate that.
think you over thinking it sorry i dont need to do the math do this math 14.99 plus 10mill paying that sto even going to come close to that even half of it ??!!!!!????? also do this if ppl dont want to pay 14.99 how is eve and wow still wait for it wait for it P2P!!!!! nice try dude but you not going to change my mind on what i think just like the same for you

but hey keep typeing paragraphs!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by macronius View Post
This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 441
# 19
11-24-2012, 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daan2006 View Post
think you over thinking it sorry i dont need to do the math do this math 14.99 plus 10mill paying that sto even going to come close to that even half of it ??!!!!!????? also do this if ppl dont want to pay 14.99 how is eve and wow still wait for it wait for it P2P!!!!! nice try dude but you not going to change my mind on what i think just like the same for you

but hey keep typeing paragraphs!!!!
And you can keep waving your EVE and WOW P2P fanboi flag. Because that's honestly what you're doing.

You're missing one completely obvious fact: EVE and WOW are published and developed by companies that have a strong following and produce only that ONE game. Nothing else. They can afford to remain P2P because they have that kind of a playerbase and it's a dedicated project. They don't have to develop and maintain over a dozen games.

PWE has 13 games at last check. One game alone isn't gonna make all their revenue.

I've laid out the facts there. In the end money is the only number that matters to the powers that be. If F2P didn't generate sufficient money, companies wouldn't do it.

You still haven't laid out any argument to the contrary besides waving your fanboi flag. For the record, I'm not trying to change your mind, simply showing that the F2P model has proven profitable and why it works for some companies.
****
Lagging, D/Cing, or rubberbanding? Here's some help.

Current ships: A lot. RTR 15 National Championships....and counting

Last edited by lewstelamon01; 11-24-2012 at 06:11 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,781
# 20
11-24-2012, 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewstelamon01 View Post
And you can keep waving your EVE and WOW P2P fanboi flag. Because that's honestly what you're doing.

I've laid out the facts there. In the end money is the only number that matters to the powers that be. If F2P didn't generate sufficient money, companies wouldn't do it.
just like your a CDer gose both ways dude

as you said money matter and why sto is F2P swtor lotor and gues what wait for it wait for it wow and eve are not
Quote:
Originally Posted by macronius View Post
This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:11 PM.