Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 21
11-24-2012, 06:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post

9 out of 10 times, the "invisikill torpedoes" were NOT invisible, I've observed this in play when others get it, and when I get it. Off-angle, maybe, even off your screen, but not invisible or a cheat.

It's called "target fixation" and happens in ANY game environment-you're doing well, you forget that the AI is doing things OTHER than totting your damage, you get got because you stopped paying attention to your environment.

I actually watched, recently, a guy in a VEsta sit there as the green-death-pea drifted lazily down on him, obliviously hammering probes at range of 9 or thereabouts, I couldn't get to him in time, but he didn't take ANY evasive, didn't pop ANY buffs, he had assumed because he was at a down-angle and long range that he was SAFE.

(mostly on account of hte infamous blind spots in CSE before the update...)

He starts into how he was "Invisikilled!!!" and ******** about bugs...kind of like a lot of folks here do on the forums. It wasn't "Invisikill" it was "You weren't looking at anything but your target."
There is actually a series of "lets play" videos on YouTube that are fairly recent, where he takes a variety of different ships and puts them through their paces in various eSTFs. Its a good set of videos, enjoyable to watch and well presented, but he is constantly getting destroyed by heavy plasma torpedoes, or dying without properly redistributing shields, or popping available cooldowns; and every time it's "just got one-shot!", or "nothing I could do about that".

Often times you can see the damn plasma torp barreling down on him, and he just completely ignores it. He doesn't cycle Tac Team and EPtS, rarely hits Brace for Impact at the right times, never uses his evasive maneuvers properly, has zero situational awareness, etc. and this is obviously a guy that's been playing for an appreciable amount of time.. He's not just someone that hit cap a couple weeks ago.

Now I honestly am not trying to pick on that person specifically, he's doing a good service to the game by putting out vids to raise interest, and i havent seen him on the forums complaining; but he's just blatantly screwing up and blaming it on the game when it's totally his fault. I will use him as an example of what about 95% of the eSTF complaints I hear on this forum and in game are actually about. For whatever reason, perhaps because it attracts non-gamer Star trek fans, this games average player is completely inept and clueless when it comes to actually playing the game.

Last edited by xantris; 11-24-2012 at 06:32 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,069
# 22
11-24-2012, 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
There is actually a series of "lets play" videos on YouTube that are fairly recent, where he takes a variety of different ships and puts them through their paces in various eSTFs. Its a good set of videos, enjoyable to watch and well presented, but he is constantly getting destroyed by heavy plasma torpedoes, or dying without properly redistributing shields, or popping available cooldowns; and every time it's "just got one-shot!", or "nothing I could do about that".

Often times you can see the damn plasma torp barreling down on him, and he just completely ignores it. He doesn't cycle Tac Team and EPtS, rarely hits Brace for Impact at the right times, never uses his evasive maneuvers properly, has zero situational awareness, etc. and this is obviously a guy that's been playing for an appreciable amount of time.. He's not just someone that hit cap a couple weeks ago.

Now I honestly am not trying to pick on that person specifically, he's doing a good service to the game by putting out vids to raise interest, and i havent seen him on the forums complaining; but he's just blatantly screwing up and blaming it on the game when it's totally his fault. I will use him as an example of what about 95% of the eSTF complaints I hear on this forum and in game are actually about. For whatever reason, perhaps because it attracts non-gamer Star trek fans, this games average player is completely inept and clueless when it comes to actually playing the game.

use ts3 and you will see that not all torps are shown if other things fire at the same time on the map.The game cant draw too many torps at the same time for some reason and you cant hit any brace for impact or tac team ....and even if you do ,iso charges against escorts ,especially if those escorts have reduce hull hit points, most of the times are deadly.

...but you already know all that because you play the game in game not on youtube ...right?

also Elite means you know how to play that specific mission.You dont have to have the best ship/build /key bind and s*** like that simply because the game is meant to be played for fun.100% efficiency is BS and no one has to play like you play or use what you use to play.

Last edited by adrianm63; 11-24-2012 at 08:35 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 588
# 23
11-24-2012, 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
I've only did about 500 or so eSTFs, so nah... I don't play them.

I'm not going to stop using the equipment and ships I worked hard for so you can bunny hop your way through easy content because your so awful at the game that you can't handle the content that is already extremely easy.

If you want an easier game, learn to play instead of being so damned terrible.

If you understood game mechanics and how to cycle your defensive cool downs and tac team you'd never get one-shot by anything other than completely avoidable stuff (ie heavy plasma, donatra, etc)
Please

I don't want game-breaking Borg superinsta-singleshot-ultraDEATH to negate my Mk XII equipment and my ship.
Fun is fun.
What you want, IF YOU PLAY STF, can be done easily by you and you alone without ruining the fun for everyone else.
Use a Tier 3 ship or switch to PvP.
NO to ARC...Keep it in Beta

RIP KDF 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,732
# 24
11-24-2012, 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrianm63 View Post
use ts3 and you will see that not all torps are shown if other things fire at the same time on the map.The game cant draw too many torps at the same time for some reason and you cant hit any brace for impact or tac team ....and even if you do ,iso charges against escorts ,especially if those escorts have reduce hull hit points, most of the times are deadly.

...but you already know all that because you play the game in game not on youtube ...right?

also Elite means you know how to play that specific mission.You dont have to have the best ship/build /key bind and s*** like that simply because the game is meant to be played for fun.100% efficiency is BS and no one has to play like you play or use what you use to play.
MY point was that even the best get target fixation-and most "Invisible kills" (My Hypothesis, based on observation) happen because of this. In Tribble, I had a Negh'var follow me across the map in CSE when I evased at low shields, in another instance, it was being too close to the next cube when Raptors spawned (again, evasing to get away from incoming plasma torp spreads while my abilities were on cooldown).

These things HAPPEN, esp. if you're not watching where you're going.

an alternate example of Target fixation was the one time I racked up a kill on a Sad Panda over Ker'rat-he was cleaning up Klingons left, right and centre, I'm not that good, but I was, briefly, good enough to get a decloak-alpha on him right after he popped a player's Negh'var.

It was dumb luck-I'm NOT that good, and he's not that bad-but he wasn't looking and I got him. Same thing happens in STF's now-and has happened in the past. It's not a rendering error, it's thinking you're safe when you're not.

As I said, I run a BoP, in particular, the Fleet Norgh, with assimilated EVERYTHING (since the sets were realigned, no point in wasting an HG shield...) I have less hull than a runabout (esp. now that Runabouts got the buff) and my sheild multiplier is a sick joke, a dirty prank...and what usually kills me is not some mystery-death-event, it's incoming enemy fire and/or warp-core breaches at too close a range.


Occasionally, those get-killed-events are a matter of weighing risk/reward in a team context, If the cube kills me but I take out the last probe, or if I die but stop that Negh'var from reaching the Kang, it's worth the respawn time AND the spare parts on rez.

But, 99% of the time, it's NOT THE GAME'S FAULT if you die, it's not a glitch, or an error, and it's not that the Borg are OP. They're about the right level of challenge now for what they are supposed to be.

I've seen more CSE, KASE, etc. fail because someone tried to play them like the "normal" difficulty runs, than anything else...including "Invisible death torpedoes."


It's the PLAYER, not the game.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 25
11-24-2012, 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrianm63 View Post
use ts3 and you will see that not all torps are shown if other things fire at the same time on the map.The game cant draw too many torps at the same time for some reason and you cant hit any brace for impact or tac team ....and even if you do ,iso charges against escorts ,especially if those escorts have reduce hull hit points, most of the times are deadly.

...but you already know all that because you play the game in game not on youtube ...right?. Seriously?
also Elite means you know how to play that specific mission.You dont have to have the best ship/build /key bind and s*** like that simply because the game is meant to be played for fun.100% efficiency is BS and no one has to play like you play or use what you use to play.
Yes, I understand that standard torps do not alway render. Standard torps won't one shot you through a full shield facing. They also won't one shot you through a weak shield facing if your running tac team or defensive cooldowns. You should always be cycling tac team and epts, so you should never get one shot by a standard torp.

The handful of times I have got "one shot", its by gates that will strip a shield facing with a energy weapon and immediately follow it up with a invis torp. But that only happens when I let my guard down and stop cycling my defensive cooldowns. Usually when I'm flying away from the gate and think I'm safe. It doesn't happen as long as tac team and EPtS are cycling, along with manual shield redistribution.

The heavy Plasmas and enemy torp spreads render 99% of the time, they are the the only torps that can actually one-shot you, and again they won't do so unless you aren't running tac team. If my Defiant can come limping away from a heavy plasma torp at 30% hull, then I have trouble believing a properly played cruiser or sci ship shouldn't be able to deal with it.

I agree that iso charges where out of line, supposedly they fixed those.

And I partially disagree with you on elite. Yes, they shouldn't be so hard that you have to stick to a super cookie cutter build with ideal key binds, etc. But no, you shouldn't just be able to fit whatever the hell you want and as long as you "know the mission" it should be a cakewalk. You should atleast need to be a decent player who understands the mechanics and can put out respectable DPS and survivability marks. You can do that with a variety of builds and equipment platforms that are sensible,

Last edited by xantris; 11-24-2012 at 10:34 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 26
11-24-2012, 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezking View Post
Please

I don't want game-breaking Borg superinsta-singleshot-ultraDEATH to negate my Mk XII equipment and my ship.
Fun is fun.
What you want, IF YOU PLAY STF, can be done easily by you and you alone without ruining the fun for everyone else.
Use a Tier 3 ship or switch to PvP.
Please

Stop being bad and learn to play the game, and you'll stop getting oneshot by the evil game mechanics that you're too inept to understand how to mitigate. If you want to play an STF, stick to normal, that can easily be done by you without ruining the fun of elites for everyone else.

Play regular STFs, that's what they are there for; or switch to Hello Kitty Adventures, that might be more your pace.

Last edited by xantris; 11-24-2012 at 10:36 PM.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 21
# 27
11-24-2012, 10:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post

I've seen more CSE, KASE, etc. fail because someone tried to play them like the "normal" difficulty runs, than anything else...including "Invisible death torpedoes."


It's the PLAYER, not the game.
Hi there, just a small note on the subject of invible torpedoes. It's been proven that on occasion, when the game engine is heavily loaded with effects, that some objects may not be rendered.

This included in the past, heavy plasma torps. They did put work in to optimising which effects were prioritised but I have seen the effect occur since then.

There were also issues with standard plasma torps doing normal damage strikes (not crit) of over 40k after sheilds.

The current bugbear appears to be isometric charges, these are hopping between players and some of the player friendly npc objects to cause extraordinary levels of damage, effectively one shotting people. Also, on occasion, where multiple Neghvars spawn they are firing several of these at once. Needless to say it can make a team vanish fairly fast.

These are all game balance/bug issues. They can bite you in the ass even if you play perfectly.

Some of these are (semi)fixed, but may have been referred to by people, some aren't.

addendum: Please, also recall that while your computer may have rendered a specific effect, other peoples machines may not have.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,732
# 28
11-24-2012, 10:50 PM
Hey, folks, no reason to get nasty about this-I suspect the problem is one of adaptation-for a long time now, the ESTF's have been pretty easy, with known tactics, known 'blind spots' and less effective/efficient AI driving the opposition.

You COULD run any one of the old space STF's with five Tacs in Escorts, and faceroll the Borg. This ain't so now, but some folks have a difficulty in dealing with the new paradigm. That's no call to EVER suggest an alternative as poorly constructed, lame, and boring as "Hello Kitty Adventures".

That's just...getting nasty.

It's right up there with suggesting "Pac Man" for those who can't handle ground STF's.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 449
# 29
11-25-2012, 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
I run elites because they are a significantly better investment of time and dilithium, and because they are on a 1 hr cooldown, I naturally run more than just ISE.

Plus, they aren't hard in the first place.
This

Quote:
Originally Posted by jellico1 View Post
When you start buying unlocks for items
I'n tier 5 then buying the item itself you
Will need lots of neural processors and
Omega marks

You will find motivation then I bet. Lol
And This,

960 Dilithium per run vs. 480 for about 5 minutes more time spent makes the Elites an easy choice for me. Especially now that I've done a few and I see that they are not that hard.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,069
# 30
11-25-2012, 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
Yes, they shouldn't be so hard that you have to stick to a super cookie cutter build with ideal key binds, etc. But no, you shouldn't just be able to fit whatever the hell you want and as long as you "know the mission" it should be a cakewalk. You should atleast need to be a decent player who understands the mechanics and can put out respectable DPS and survivability marks. You can do that with a variety of builds and equipment platforms that are sensible,

you should be able to play with crappy gear just because that way your skills would be more important than your gear and it would also remove the grind for gear or make it optional.

maybe Im old fashion but I always liked when I was able to get better results with skill than someone who had better gear than me but no skill.Thats more rewarding ....but maybe Im talking about a different game
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