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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,774
# 41
11-26-2012, 12:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilghost1026 View Post
True, However, its a problem when a tac buffs up with alpha/omega/gdf/tac fleet and DPB3 and drops the tric mines. they hit between 20-50k+ damage per hit with AOE damage. i've seen a single DPB3 from an escort wipe out a full team in 1 set of mines. Like torpedo spread, or high yield, damage per mine should be dropped to compensate for the already very high damage tric mines already do.

Nerf the damage % per mine for each additional tric mine added or take the mines off dispersal pattern.
Y'see, that is kinda the thing though. Two words:

Tac buffs.

Let's be honest, those things have been the inadvertant cause of a lot of nerfs and troubles in PvP, because they buff things people didn't think about them buffing. Like the more recent problem with mega-strong TBRs ticking for thousands of damage through shields.

I'm not saying that the mines don't need a balance pass, I am just saying that it's just another problem brought up by a rather old issue. If it isn't tric mines now, it'll be something else later on.

Nothing against tacticals as a class, but this has happened before, and will probably happen again.

Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,360
# 42
11-26-2012, 05:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilghost1026 View Post
True, However, its a problem when a tac buffs up with alpha/omega/gdf/tac fleet and DPB3 and drops the tric mines. they hit between 20-50k+ damage per hit with AOE damage. i've seen a single DPB3 from an escort wipe out a full team in 1 set of mines. Like torpedo spread, or high yield, damage per mine should be dropped to compensate for the already very high damage tric mines already do.

Nerf the damage % per mine for each additional tric mine added or take the mines off dispersal pattern.

@Minitrckin08 Turkish RP Heros
Now that is a good idea! and it saves the usefulness of Dispersal Patterns.

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
Y'see, that is kinda the thing though. Two words:

Tac buffs.
Tac buffs should buff weapons and a mine is a weapon. Tac Buffs should not buff anything else in my opinion.
STO is very much an Adam One culture and completely inarticulate about Adam Two.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 43
11-26-2012, 08:39 AM
Alright, so with the time console, tipler as well as the set where you reset everyone's cool down. It is far fetched to see anyone be able to deal with any tricobalt mines with their cool downs longer than tric mine deployment.

We haven't got a response on any of this stuff yet. They wanted us to test, and give them feed back. Here it is.

I feel as though a new batch of PvPers are about to leave this game.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,360
# 44
11-26-2012, 09:52 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
Alright, so with the time console, tipler as well as the set where you reset everyone's cool down. It is far fetched to see anyone be able to deal with any tricobalt mines with their cool downs longer than tric mine deployment.
Sounds like the problem lies with those items not being even remotely balanced for PvP and not Tricobalt mines per se to me.

Nobody has felt exploited when somebody killed a player with a single Tricobalt mine and a well timed EWP or GW in a match, so I'm going with the new consoles still have that new, " slightly OP " skew to them that evidently is required to sell ships with consoles and this imbalance is why those consoles work with a DpB Tricobalt attack so well.

I just can not lay blaim soley on the Tricobalt mine that has been laughed at until recently in PvP.
STO is very much an Adam One culture and completely inarticulate about Adam Two.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,405
# 45
11-26-2012, 10:32 AM
[quote=bitemepwe;6795071]
Quote:

Sounds like the problem lies with those items not being even remotely balanced for PvP and not Tricobalt mines per se to me.

Nobody has felt exploited when somebody killed a player with a single Tricobalt mine and a well timed EWP or GW in a match, so I'm going with the new consoles still have that new, " slightly OP " skew to them that evidently is required to gamble for lockbox ships with consoles and this imbalance is why those consoles work with a DpB Tricobalt attack so well.

I just can not lay blaim soley on the Tricobalt mine that has been laughed at until recently in PvP.
Sorry, I saw something that was abit more proper and had to fix it.. Your welcome.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 46
11-26-2012, 10:43 AM
[quote=bitemepwe;6795071]
Quote:

Sounds like the problem lies with those items not being even remotely balanced for PvP and not Tricobalt mines per se to me.

Nobody has felt exploited when somebody killed a player with a single Tricobalt mine and a well timed EWP or GW in a match, so I'm going with the new consoles still have that new, " slightly OP " skew to them that evidently is required to sell ships with consoles and this imbalance is why those consoles work with a DpB Tricobalt attack so well.

I just can not lay blaim soley on the Tricobalt mine that has been laughed at until recently in PvP.
So you don't see anything wrong with a bug running tric mines in the back slots, 1 dispersal in the back + dual heavies in the front?

Do you realize that's over 80k spike in 1 second?

Dispersal pattern 1 drops 2 Tric mines, fully buffed they're generously lowered (for the sake of your argument) to 30k per mine. While masked energy signature active, with disable percs. And doesn't need to be aimed

Then you got the dual heavies doing doing 5k per cannon across the front for about 20 seconds with a tactical fleet, GDF, APO and Alpha. So that's 5k x 4 = 20k x 20 400k damage + tric mines of 120k because he's able to lay two during that attack run due to cool down of running two of them.

Difference between the mines and the cannons, is that cannons are not doing 60k (+critical) spike. The cannons are doing tops 20k spike, and that's if you're lined up with a target the whole time with your narrow 45 degree cannons. Mines don't need that effort, 60k spike effortlessly delivered.

Just what exactly are you talking about when saying "oh it's not a problem, it's normal?" Just imagine yourself getting hit by 2 tric mines, 4 DHC, while your team's AOE to deal with trics is on cool down, messed up because of the time console bonus set. There is no heal in this game that can save you from that blast of 60k from mines 20k from cannons that's 80k damage in 1 second, 60k of it is from mines.. Oh, I forgot to add the other team's tric mines and damage to the mix. Good luck with that.

Again, read the prior posts. This isn't about single tricobalt mines, we're asking if they're going to allow dispersal patterns then they should nerf the damage per mine. OR not allow the mine to be dispersed.

Single mines are fine. When they're dispersed, it becomes a big problem.

Lol what's going on here, was the video not enough evidence to point out the day in day out of tricobalts mines being used in the demeanor they are in the queues like in the video? This posts explains the reality of that amount of damage being delivered in the queues today.

Wow, you guys can't let go of stuff, that's ridiculous.

Last edited by paxottoman; 11-26-2012 at 10:47 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 139
# 47
11-26-2012, 10:44 AM
Having a hard time seeing any problem here except the Tipler console and the way mines work with it.

Lots of new tactics with mines being discussed. Nothing here is OP except the Tipler + mine combination.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 661
# 48
11-26-2012, 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post

There is no heal in this game that can save you from that blast of 60k from mines 20k from cannons that's 80k damage in 1 second, 60k of it is from mines.. Oh, I forgot to add the other team's tric mines and damage to the mix. Good luck with that.
Yes there is! Its called RSP!

Not that im a fan of using it.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 49
11-26-2012, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
Yes there is! Its called RSP!

Not that im a fan of using it.
LoL Devoras..

You're going to hit RSP how many times every 30 seconds? Much less anticipate the tric mine + dual heavy cannon strike?

It would seem like a jittery situation to constantly have your finger over the RSP buff in these kinds of situation.

Nonetheless, let's entertain the idea say you do have RSP abundantly usable. It's not something that will save you from 80k spike. Know why? By the time you go for the RSP buff, you're dead. Know why? Because it's 80k lol, RSP is usually hit when you're going down, not when you're instant popped.

Which reminds me, the disable effect from say 1 tric will grey out your RSP. The second tric hits you then, and the cannons finish you off. Or how about it's on cool down because you miraculously anticipated the last tric bomb 30 seconds ago, OR it's on cool down because of time ship consoles lol. Disable can last up to 3 seconds. RSP has an activation time of 1 second. LoL So who are we kidding here?

Last edited by paxottoman; 11-26-2012 at 11:21 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 661
# 50
11-26-2012, 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
LoL Devoras..

You're going to hit RSP how many times every 30 seconds? Much less anticipate the tric mine + dual heavy cannon strike?

It would seem like a jittery situation to constantly have your finger over the RSP buff in these kinds of situation.

Nonetheless, let's entertain the idea say you do have RSP abundantly usable. It's not something that will save you from 80k spike. Know why? By the time you go for the RSP buff, you're dead. Know why? Because it's 80k lol, RSP is usually hit when you're going down, not when you're instant popped.
Oh im not saying its a good or viable counter, but RSP is THE counter to such a devastating attack. And besides, if a player is able to predict a certain outcome, spikes like that CAN be negated, though seldom.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
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