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Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 51
11-26-2012, 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
Oh im not saying its a good or viable counter, but RSP is THE counter to such a devastating attack. And besides, if a player is able to predict a certain outcome, spikes like that CAN be negated, though seldom.
It's actually not, because 80k spike will not give you a chance to use it. lol.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 52
11-26-2012, 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
It's actually not, because 80k spike will not give you a chance to use it. lol.
Then situational awarness comes into play, being able to predict incoming spikes.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 53
11-26-2012, 11:33 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
So you don't see anything wrong with a bug running tric mines in the back slots, 1 dispersal in the back + dual heavies in the front?
Since DpB is bugged and crits all mines, thats an issue.

Otherwise No.
I find no issue with a Bugship running that set-up if all things where functioning in a balanced format. The same build can be run on a Defiant, raptor, Vet Ship, B'rel or any number of escort/escort-like vessels that exist ingame.

Dual heavies are fine with me as they are ingame. I have no issue with them at all.

Tricobalt mines are fine the way they are, only DpB/DpA need to be fixed to work with them in a fair fashion.
Minitruckin suggested the best fix so far, make the damage of DpB/DpA become dived among teh number of mines so as more mines are produced the damge is lower per mine. Fix the Crit issue and the grief over DpB goes away.

Quote:
Dispersal pattern 1 drops 2 Tric mines, fully buffed they're generously lowered (for the sake of your argument) to 30k per mine. While masked energy signature active, with disable percs. And doesn't need to be aimed
They sure do have to be timed though or they miss entirely as your foe flies by them during thier prep phase. Of course one could use EWP, TB, VTR, GW, TyR or a whole slew of abilities to solve that issue and hold the foe while it preps.
Does this mean EWP, TB, VTR, GW and TyR are OP as well becuase someone learned how to use them with a weapon?

Quote:
Just what exactly are you talking about when saying "oh it's not a problem, it's normal?"
The use of a single Tricobalt mine as I mentioned is normal. Why? becuase nobody ever bitched as loud as this over a single Tricobalt hit in PvP.

Frankly you seem to be so busy trying to convince everyone how evil tricobalts mines are that I believe you are overlooking the simple fix that has been offered many times and would solve the issue.

Quote:
Single mines are fine. When they're dispersed, it becomes a big problem.
Which is what I have been saying since day one of this particular issue.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.

Last edited by bitemepwe; 11-26-2012 at 12:22 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 50
# 54
11-26-2012, 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
Y'see, that is kinda the thing though. Two words:

Tac buffs.

Let's be honest, those things have been the inadvertant cause of a lot of nerfs and troubles in PvP, because they buff things people didn't think about them buffing. Like the more recent problem with mega-strong TBRs ticking for thousands of damage through shields.

I'm not saying that the mines don't need a balance pass, I am just saying that it's just another problem brought up by a rather old issue. If it isn't tric mines now, it'll be something else later on.

Nothing against tacticals as a class, but this has happened before, and will probably happen again.

If you watched Pax's video he linked (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVKA625XUf4&feature=plcp) , you would also know its not just tacs that have the power to have very high crits from these trics. In the video, there are 2 sci ships using the tric mines. Against FIVE people. These two players were winning against the whole team on the other side. because they used tric mines. Say they did have support from the other players on their team. they wouldnt have died at all, or if there were 5 people all running trics, even if it was all sci's, the damage is davastating.

Nerf the damage % per mine for each additional mine dispersed...
-15% each for 2, -25% each for 3, -35% each for 4 mines.


At least that way you wouldnt have to worry about a whole team being wiped out from a single players tric mine blasts. while still keeping them very powerful

@Minitrckin08 Turkish RP Heros

Last edited by evilghost1026; 11-26-2012 at 12:45 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,030
# 55
11-26-2012, 11:59 AM
[/quote]
Tricobalt mines are fine the way they are, only DpB/DpA need to be fixed to work with them in a fair fashion.
Minitruckin suggested the best fix so far, make the damage of DpB/DpA become dived among teh number of mines so as more mines are produced the damge is lower per mine. Fix the Crit issue and the grief over DpB goes away.

They sure do have to be timed though or they miss entirely as your foe flies by them during thier prep phase. Of course one could use EWP, TB, VTR, GW, TyR or a whole slew of abilities to solve that issue and hold the foe while it preps.
Does this mean EWP, TB, VTR, GW and TyR are OP as well becuase someone learned how to use them with a weapon?

Frankly you seem to be so busy trying to convince everyone how evil tricobalts mines are that I believe you are overlooking the simple fix that has been offered many times and would solve the issue.[/quote]

Perhaps the same way torp spread/torp HY speads the damage over torps deployed but would this not nerf all other mine types?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 56
11-26-2012, 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapla1755 View Post
Perhaps the same way torp spread/torp HY speads the damage over torps deployed but would this not nerf all other mine types?
Only if they go the easy route and apply it to all mines. Otherwise I think its a great idea if it spreads the Tricobalt damage out over many mines rather than multiplying the damage among many mines.
Of all the ideas I like minitruckins the best.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,030
# 57
11-26-2012, 12:59 PM
Not to be negative but fixes always seem to be done the easy way first until the unintended problem rears its ugly head

BTW.. According to tribble notes we can get fleet b'rel @tier 5 and fleet veranus soon
HAPPY HUNTING ALL hope u had a good holiday
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 680
# 58
11-26-2012, 01:15 PM
I tried trico mines today, they are so unbalanced, blow some 100% heal ships using DPB.

DPB + [crth]x3 mine = free kill
John Sheridan@playhard88 - FED Tactical
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 59
11-26-2012, 01:18 PM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapla1755 View Post
Not to be negative but fixes always seem to be done the easy way first until the unintended problem rears its ugly head
Yeah. Thats my fear for Tricobalts and DpB/DpA and it will mean this issue will linger.


Quote:
BTW.. According to tribble notes we can get fleet b'rel @tier 5 and fleet veranus soon
HAPPY HUNTING ALL hope u had a good holiday
The B'rel advanced BoP with advanced battle cloak as a T5 fleet ship is worth it if, and only if, they do not gimp the stats severly to make it useless.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.

Last edited by bitemepwe; 11-26-2012 at 01:21 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,568
# 60
11-26-2012, 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilghost1026 View Post
If you watched Pax's video he linked (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVKA625XUf4&feature=plcp) , you would also know its not just tacs that have the power to have very high crits from these trics. In the video, there are 2 sci ships using the tric mines. Against FIVE people. These two players were winning against the whole team on the other side. because they used tric mines. Say they did have support from the other players on their team. they wouldnt have died at all, or if there were 5 people all running trics, even if it was all sci's, the damage is davastating.

Nerf the damage % per mine for each additional mine dispersed...
-15% each for 2, -25% each for 3, -35% each for 4 mines.


At least that way you wouldnt have to worry about a whole team being wiped out from a single players tric mine blasts. while still keeping them very powerful

@Minitrckin08 Turkish RP Heros
I admit, I forgot about that when I made my post.

True that non-tacs can hit mega-damage, but I stand by my point about tac buffs being an underlying cause of some other problems, though I do give on this not being one of em.

That aside, let trics have a nerf, that's fine. I love using them, and will defend them, and am ok with a nerf, but only to a point, not just being made useless. Your idea, or the idea of removing them from Dispersal patterns seems ok to me. But just one, not both removing them, and reducing their damage.

Honestly, the bigger issue I see is the Tipler console itself. That turns a very powerful set of mines into an unavoidable, and uncounterable death. Even if tric mines took a nerf, the Tipler console would still be exactly as powerful as it is now.

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