Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 252
# 51
11-27-2012, 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by webdeath View Post
Personally, I find it funny that the B'rel-R got made into a Fleet variant.. making all the other Fleet Varients pretty much even more Obsolete. Why bother with any of the other BoPs when you can just wait to Tier 5 (Or find a KDF fleet at Tier 5) And get one that way.
Because the Fleet B'rel, like the C-store variant, is much better used as a Torpedo Platform that is very hard to pin down and kill.

That and I prefer my Fleet Hoh'sus with 4 Tac consoles

However, correct me if I'm wrong, but can you use Science Abilities while using the B'rel's Enhanced Battle Cloak?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 777
# 52
11-27-2012, 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
The with diminishing returns max hull resists isn't so high that you couldn't run your torp/mine build with 3 eng consoles and basically have the same hull resists as running 4. Assuming you're running things like a mix of he, aux2sif, ph, apd, aux2damp etc you'll have high hull resists. You also would have the option of Hazzard doffs.

You're also forgetting the main defensive benefit of running EBC, when you're exposed and uncloaked from using some Boff powers or weapons you maintain your cloak defense bonus.

In the end Tac would be better for that build since it boosts your mine/torp damage.

Imo, 4th Sci would most likely make your build better as well; since, even if your build doesn't have a Sci skill which could benefit you could always boost your shield buffer and/or even use add in utility console like a biomonitor to keep your crew levels up, or power insulators, or intertial damps, etc.

Also, with the lack of real decent Sci options for KDF a 4 Sci console B'rel would have helped fill that void nicely. This was the worst possible console addition option for the B'rel. I'd have rather they gave the 16k hull ship an EBC and called it the B'rel upgrade tbh.
Exactly, anyone who thinks that a fourth engineering console would add up to a BoP's survival has probably never flown one. Thanks to its low hullpoint value it gets destroyed in seconds when its shields drop, regardless of hull damage reduction. The Fleet B'rel should get a fourth science slot instead of the engineering one.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 252
# 53
11-27-2012, 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eisenw0lf View Post
Exactly, anyone who thinks that a fourth engineering console would add up to a BoP's survival has probably never flown one. Thanks to its low hullpoint value it gets destroyed in seconds when its shields drop, regardless of hull damage reduction. The Fleet B'rel should get a fourth science slot instead of the engineering one.
I've flown BOP's, but not extensively. Mostly because until recently, I never really liked them.

Always preferred Battlecruisers over them.

I'm still not convinced that a 4th engineering console isn't a good thing, but I did request that they take another look at it. Maybe, just maybe, they'll change their mind and give you a 4th science console.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,103
# 54
11-27-2012, 11:20 AM
Hmm...4 eng consoles...

I know!

3 Neutronium..and...

1 Injector Assembly.

or maybe...

2 Neutroniums
1 Injector
1 RCS

tell me having MORE POWER is a bad thing.

If I recall correctly, they call the technique I'm alluding to(no doubt badly) "Speed Tanking"-raising your manuevering speeds to ridiculous levels to avoid getting hit. (say, whilst running MkXI KHG set, which currently resides on my Hegh'ta, or the MkXII Omega set...)

It's a BoP, you're never going to hulltank a bop, and with .88 shield multiplier, you're going to have some difficulty shield-tanking, but you know damn good and well that if you're jumpy enough, you're going to be hard to HIT>

esp. with the right combinations of APO and Evasives (When you decloak). Move is PArt of your defense, so boost your move to the point of absurdity.

Of course, if you want to be more reasonable about it, there are consoles out there that are engineering consoles...and boost shields.

a BoP will NEVER hulltank worth ****, but there may be some value in THIS BoP's using consoles you most often see either dumped on the Exchange for peanuts, or put to use only on cruisers.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 523
# 55
11-27-2012, 12:49 PM
Fleet Deep Space Science Vessel - 31350 - 11 - 1.43 - 3/5/2 - CMDR/LTC Science - LT/Ens ENG - LT Tact

Varanus Fleet Support Vessel - 31350 - 11 - 1.32 - 3/4/3 - CMDR/LTC Sci - LT/Ens Eng - LT Tact

Shouldn't the Varanus get a hull buff or turn buff or at least the same shield mod as the closest CAREBEAR sci! I guess it's nice to get a fleet science, but why the copy paste -0.11?

And why is it that feds get 5 tact console fleet escorts and the KDF doesn't??? But we get ass dragging 4 engy console escorts.
-X-/Pandas - Pheo
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,103
# 56
11-27-2012, 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremenoob1 View Post
Fleet Deep Space Science Vessel - 31350 - 11 - 1.43 - 3/5/2 - CMDR/LTC Science - LT/Ens ENG - LT Tact

Varanus Fleet Support Vessel - 31350 - 11 - 1.32 - 3/4/3 - CMDR/LTC Sci - LT/Ens Eng - LT Tact

Shouldn't the Varanus get a hull buff or turn buff or at least the same shield mod as the closest CAREBEAR sci! I guess it's nice to get a fleet science, but why the copy paste -0.11?

And why is it that feds get 5 tact console fleet escorts and the KDF doesn't??? But we get ass dragging 4 engy console escorts.
B'rel's not an escort, it's a BoP, which means it doesn't HAVE the ass-drag issue that Raptors do.

A way to look at it, is that FedScorts are those high-end European performance sedans with the "kindness to the Earth" emissions features, four door seating and high price tags....and good handling.

Battlecruisers and Raptors (KDF ships) are Muscle Cars...(Slightly poorer handling, lots of power)

And BoPs are motorcycles.

(the performance, handling, and stripped down nature of BoPs makes them the in-game equivalent of a CAFE bike, compared to the Fedscort's BMW M-5, Raptor's 1969 Camaro and Tor'khat's 1970 Plymouth Superbird, can you dig it?)

I suspect that's going to be the key to making the Fleet B'rel more than a one-trick gimmick minelayer-treat it like you would a Motorbike-enhance the speed and handling beyond the ridiculous, then try to hang on (and stock up on skills that resist things like Tractor beams. multiple APO comes to mind as a good choice here, along with polarize hull)... it may be that more traditional Bird of Prey layouts may not be as effective as some experimental ideas-cranking up the performance and handling could be more useful, I suspect, than trying to give it the hull-tank ability of a Defiant or Bugship.

(after all, if he can't get guns to bear on you, he can't exploit your tissue-thin hull...)
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,097
# 57
11-27-2012, 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremenoob1 View Post
Fleet Deep Space Science Vessel - 31350 - 11 - 1.43 - 3/5/2 - CMDR/LTC Science - LT/Ens ENG - LT Tact

Varanus Fleet Support Vessel - 31350 - 11 - 1.32 - 3/4/3 - CMDR/LTC Sci - LT/Ens Eng - LT Tact

Shouldn't the Varanus get a hull buff or turn buff or at least the same shield mod as the closest CAREBEAR sci! I guess it's nice to get a fleet science, but why the copy paste -0.11?

And why is it that feds get 5 tact console fleet escorts and the KDF doesn't??? But we get ass dragging 4 engy console escorts.
i double checked and the varanus just comes with 28500 hull in base form, just like the deep space sci. it just has a lower shield mod too, for no reason. even the nebula and vulcan ship have a 1.3 mod with their additional hull.

this poor ship needs DHC use and a hull buff for sure, in fleet and base form
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 523
# 58
11-27-2012, 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
i double checked and the varanus just comes with 28500 hull in base form, just like the deep space sci. it just has a lower shield mod too, for no reason. even the nebula and vulcan ship have a 1.3 mod with their additional hull.

this poor ship needs DHC use and a hull buff for sure, in fleet and base form
NAME/HULL/Turn/shield mod/Consoles (eng/sci/tact) - boff (Science/Eng/Tact/Uni)

Fleet Deep Space Science Vessel - 31350 - 11 - 1.43 - 3/5/2 - CMDR/LTC Science - LT/Ens ENG - LT Tact
Fleet Research Science Vessel retrofit - 28050 - 13 - 1.22 - 4/4/2 - CMDR/LT/Ens Science - LTC ENG - LT Tact
*Research Science Vessel retrofit - 25500 - 13 - 1.1 - 3/4/2 - CMDR/LT/Ens Science - LTC ENG - LT Tact
Fleet Reconnaissance Science Vessel - 29700 - 13 - 1.43 - 2/4/4 - CMDR/LTC Science - LT ENG- LT/Ens Tact
Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retro - 34650 - 9 - 1.43 - 4/4/2 - CMDR/Ens Science - LTC Eng - LT Tact - LT Uni
Fleet Science Vessel Refit - 27390 - 15 - 1.11 - 3/4/3 - CMDR/LT/Ens Sci - LT Eng - LTC Tact
*Science Vessel Refit - 24900 - 15 - 1.01 - 2/4/3 - CMDR/LTC SCi - LT Eng - LT/Ens Tact

Fleet Long Range Sci vessel refit - 29700 - 12 - 1.43 - 3/4/3 - CMDR/LTC/Ens Sci - LT Eng - LT Tact

Varanus Fleet Support Vessel - 31350 - 11 - 1.32 - 3/4/3 - CMDR/LTC Sci - LT/Ens Eng - LT Tact
-X-/Pandas - Pheo
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 363
# 59
11-28-2012, 03:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukdivefire View Post
Darn :/ Thanks for confirming that. I joined a fleet with tier 3 shipyard unlocked on Tribble with the hope of seeing the Fleet Excelsior at 1 Fleet module, but no luck there, still 5 (yes I own the tier 5 Excelsior). Seems testing these ships may be a little tricky.
Just a thought:
You could try to buy 1 fleet module on holodeck(in the exchange). Copy your character 5 times (if you need 5 modules) and mule them all on one char.
After that you can resell your fleet module on the live server in the exchange for the same price you bought it.

Now I haven't tried that, but it might work.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,876
# 60
11-28-2012, 03:53 AM
Rather hope they're added to Holodeck shipyard in tomorrow's patch (assuming there is one as usual). I have the RA Excelsior, and my Tac was pretty effective in it. And always found it really enjoyable to fly, so rather looking forward to giving the Fleet version a try!
Quote:
Originally Posted by robdmc View Post
Remember, this place [Captain's Table] is so desolate that upon entering the Aenigma Nebula you will be prompted with a warp out box because the game thinks you flew there by mistake.
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