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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 643
# 11
11-26-2012, 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
Not anymore. Market speculation on the new Romulan weapons has pushed the consoles up just under Disruptors in price(22 million and rising), about a 400% increase over the last week.
Roll a Klingon, level it to 50 and replay Blood of the Empire. It's reward selection includes Mk XI Plasma Infusers and Mk XI Ambiplasma Envelopes among other consoles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pottsey5g View Post
Unless you run projectile doffs then Photons are one of the lowest DPS torps.
Okay what? Since when? Last I checked (which was this morning actually) Photon Torpedoes had an unaugmented DPS that was second only to Quantum Torpedoes and could be argued to be better than Quantums in certain circumstances because they had an unagumented fire rate that was the highes of any projectile weapon in the game.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 133
# 12
11-26-2012, 10:54 AM
So much confusion! Let me try to fix it.

Photon Torps do moderate damage, but have a higher rate of fire. This gives them the highest DPS.

Quantums do much more damage, but fire slower.

When you add 3x Purple Projectile Warfare Officers, however, torpedoes recharge much faster. Quantums (and to some extent, plasma as well) have several advantages over photon torpedoes when using these Duty officers:
1. Because quantums have a longer recharge rate than photon torps, they benefit more than photons from the PWOs. In fact, the observed DPS from a single quantum is about the same as a single photon while running these PWOs (so, the PWOs help the photon torp, but help the quantum MORE, enough to roughly equalize the DPS).
2. When running multiple torpedoes (remember that they share a 1-sec GCD), the fact that quantums (and plasmas) have a longer base cooldown means you can slot more of them without them "stepping on each other" and causing diminishing returns. The sweet spot for quantum torpedo launchers is probably 3 (possibly 2 if your other front weapons are DHCs - more on this in #3). For photon torpedoes, however, even 2 will often GCD each other when running so many PWOs.
3. Quantum DPS considerations: 3x Purple PWOs will increase the Rate of Fire on a quantum torp from 1 shot every 8 seconds (1/8) to 2.83 shots every 8 seconds. If you have 2 Quantum torpedoes fitted, then you'll see an observed RoF of around 5.4/8 seconds (note: that's less than the 5.66 you might expect, due to the fact that sometimes they will GCD each other). If you have 3 Quantums fitted, you'll see around 7 torps fired every 8 seconds (again, you lose efficiency because of the GCD). This means the following: look at the tooltip DPS of your quantum torpedo (while you are in space). Multiply it by 2.8, 5.4, and 7 respectively. That's the effective DPS of those 1, 2, or 3 quantum launchers you have fitted. If you are wondering if it's ever worth it to put a 4th quantum tube in an arc: no it's not. If you are wondering about that 3rd torp, then take your Tooltip Quantum Torp DPS, multiply it by 1.6 (the rough difference between 2 and 3 launchers), and compare that to the Tooltip DPS of another weapon (DHC, dual beam, Kinetic Cutting Beam, whatever). If the 1.6xQuantum Tooltip DPS is greater, use the torpedo. If the other weapon is greater, then just use 2 quantums and use the other weapon instead.

TL;DR: 1 torp? No PWOs? Use a photon torp. Multiple torps? PWOs? Go with quantum.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 13
# 13
11-26-2012, 01:08 PM
I haven't been able to find any threads on this, but have there been any tests to see how replacing a rear torp launcher with the Borg Kinetic Cutting Beam affects DPS - either positively or negatively?

I ran a small test yesterday (in PVE), replacing a rear mk XII quantum launcher with it (tac oddy, beams, a rear and forward quantum launcher). I noticed just a marginal 50 dps increase when using it, but could be normal fluctuation - nothing significant.

Just curious on others' thoughts of it's viability as a rear torp replacement.

Last edited by larouche55; 11-26-2012 at 01:45 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 93
# 14
11-27-2012, 08:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirscht View Post
As I read through the forums I see this undercurrent of a debate between plasma and quantum weapons. What's the skinny on what is best? Or is something even better. I recently switched my beams and turrets to plasma (still have quantum torps for the moment) and added two plasma boosting tac consoles. This increased my dps by about 20K. But I'm wondering if I should swithc the torps, too. (I know, I know... rainbow boats, blah blah blah), But if Plasma is as great as I thought it was I don't want to switch them.


I've noticed alot of "if you're running this.." or "if you're running that"s in the replies, and it occurs to me I wasn't very specific in what I'm running when I posted originally. Let me give you my old set up versus my new and see what you all think, and if it helps clarify: (tac officer flying a recon sci ship)

OLD SET-UP: Fore weapons: Phaser beam array Mk IX
Phaser cannon Mk X
Photon Torp Mk X

Aft weapons: Phaser beam array Mk IX
Phaser turret Mk X
Photon Torp Mk X

with tac consoles: Phaser relay (+18.8% phaser dmg)
Photon detonation assembly (+13.1% projectile dmg)

AVERAGE DPS IN PvP: 74K


NEW SET-UP: Fore weapons: Plasma beam array Mk X
Plasma cannon Mk IX (rare)
Quantum Torp Mk IX (rare)

Aft Weapons: Phaser beam array Mk X
Plasma turret Mk IX (rare)
Quantum torp Mk IX (uncommon)

With tac consoles: zero point quantum chamber Mk X (+20.6% quantum proj dmg)
Plasma infuser (+13.1% plasma energy dmg)
Prefire chamber (+12.5% cannon weapon dmg)

AVG DPS IN PvP: 94K

With both set-eps all I have for a weapons duty officer is 1 projectile officer to reduce torp recharge time.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,203
# 15
11-27-2012, 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by larouche55 View Post
I haven't been able to find any threads on this, but have there been any tests to see how replacing a rear torp launcher with the Borg Kinetic Cutting Beam affects DPS - either positively or negatively?

I ran a small test yesterday (in PVE), replacing a rear mk XII quantum launcher with it (tac oddy, beams, a rear and forward quantum launcher). I noticed just a marginal 50 dps increase when using it, but could be normal fluctuation - nothing significant.

Just curious on others' thoughts of it's viability as a rear torp replacement.
I just installed the Omega Cutting Beam on my fully loaded Mobius destroyer, replacing a rear mounted AP turret, and I could tell that it made a significant difference in elite STF's. Borg are primarily hull tanks with easily-breached shields, thereby making omni-directional kinetic weapons more effective that standard energy turrets or narrow-arc torpedo launchers.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 425
# 16
11-27-2012, 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shar487a View Post
I just installed the Omega Cutting Beam on my fully loaded Mobius destroyer, replacing a rear mounted AP turret, and I could tell that it made a significant difference in elite STF's. Borg are primarily hull tanks with easily-breached shields, thereby making omni-directional kinetic weapons more effective that standard energy turrets or narrow-arc torpedo launchers.
Well, if you are using and boosting AP with 4 mk xi (rare consoles), the cutting-beam has a 0.2 DPS advantage in Base-DPS over the advanced fleet turret, but it isn't boosted by subsystem-targeting or beam fire-at-will (I don't know if it can be used for an overload).

Also the cutting-beam isn't boosted by Cannon-abilities (CSV and CRF). Maybe you've recognized a boost in your DPS, because of the 2-piece Bonus with the assimilated console (damage amplification - 2.5% chance to increase your weapon-powerlevel by 10).

I don't want to say:"use this, that sucks...", but some projectile-weapons have got secondary effects. I love to use Chroniton-Torpedoes on the Atrox of my SCI (I need to slow down the enemies so I can keep facing them). My Engineer and my tactical have got both the Armitage and use both Quantum Torpedoes.

I would expect that you would find Transphasic Torpedoes on torpedo-boats (because of the higher shield penetration).

So, it isn't just a question "what is good?", it's more like "what's good for me, what gives me the highest benefits?".
First one half of the so called Community complains: "Give us instant access to all veteran rewards, for going lifetime.", then the other half of the same Community complains: "I've earned 1000 Day membership, I want a special reward.".
Stop complaining, if it is enough for you, you could have the "Captains Table" for the real veterans, I don't want access to another dead social zone...
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,203
# 17
11-27-2012, 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by torsten1009 View Post
Well, if you are using and boosting AP with 4 mk xi (rare consoles), the cutting-beam has a 0.2 DPS advantage in Base-DPS over the advanced fleet turret, but it isn't boosted by subsystem-targeting or beam fire-at-will (I don't know if it can be used for an overload).

Also the cutting-beam isn't boosted by Cannon-abilities (CSV and CRF). Maybe you've recognized a boost in your DPS, because of the 2-piece Bonus with the assimilated console (damage amplification - 2.5% chance to increase your weapon-powerlevel by 10).
Yes, my Mobius does run 4 AP Mag regulators, but I was not aware that these boosted the cutting beam's kinetic damage... good to know.
EDIT: Just checked -- the above info is FALSE. Antiproton Mag Regulators do not boost cutting beam damage.

Yes, I am aware that BO-abilities do not work with cutting beam. Since the Borg Universal Assimilated Module is arguable one of the best consoles in the game, it is a perfect match for the Omega Cutting Beam to get the +10 weapon power proc.

I don't know if your calculations factor Kinetic damage dealing double the listed amount vs. exposed hulls, but this gives the Cutting Beam a clear advantage in Elite STF's since Borg are 90% hull / 10% shields. Many STF stationary targets are also unshielded, allowing the Cutting Beam to maximize effect immediately.

Last edited by shar487a; 12-01-2012 at 04:19 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 182
# 18
11-27-2012, 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirscht View Post
As I read through the forums I see this undercurrent of a debate between plasma and quantum weapons. What's the skinny on what is best? Or is something even better. I recently switched my beams and turrets to plasma (still have quantum torps for the moment) and added two plasma boosting tac consoles. This increased my dps by about 20K. But I'm wondering if I should swithc the torps, too. (I know, I know... rainbow boats, blah blah blah), But if Plasma is as great as I thought it was I don't want to switch them.
Theres a new omega plasma torpedo as part of the omega rep system based on borg technology so it may be worth reveiwing that before making a final decision.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,203
# 19
11-27-2012, 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by admiralandy View Post
Theres a new omega plasma torpedo as part of the omega rep system based on borg technology so it may be worth reveiwing that before making a final decision.
I believe you need T4 Omega Rep to build the Omega Torpedo Launcher. I just got T2 with the Cutting Beam, so it will be a while before I'll be able to test one out.
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