Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 31
11-27-2012, 02:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Your problem is, "Decent Ship" is a pure matter of Definition and is highly influenced by (surprise) what you prefer to fly NOW.

For instance, I find Raptors and Cruisers to be pretty much too annoying to ever use-even specced for turn, it takes them too long to bring nose-to-bear and accelleration tends to be on the 'suck side', (aka yelling "Send men out to PUSH!!!")

From MY perspective, the Hegh'ta is a decent ship, the Fleet Norgh is a Decent Ship, hell, even the stock "Ki'Tang" is a decent ship.

But Raptors? Garbage. Half-ass Cruisers pretending to be more useful than they really are. The 1000 day ship for KdF: is a Raptor with a Uni console and Battlecloak.

Cruisers now?

The Tor'Khat might be okay...for a cruiser, which is to say, a fat raptor with the same defects plus some extra slots.

Vor'cha? Send those boys out to push on the NOSE! she's stuck again.


Bortasque-just...give up. driving this is like driving a city bus with flat tyres and bad brakes. Half an hour of playing with this POS and I was ready to log off using a hammer.


Now that we've established some perspective from THIS side of the screen...


The stats on the Fleet B'Rel give it more hull than a Hegh'ta. (this would be a plus)
More consoles too. (Likewise a plus, if you can't figure out what to use there, you don't kinow your game mechanics as well as you think you do.)

better turn rate? check
Same weapons slots?" Check
Improved BC? gimmicky, but not the end-all of the design.

based on the B'rel Retrofit (which I got thanks to being a lifer-natch!) it's got a better shield multiplier than any other BoP, better hull, better mass/turn ratio and average to good Boff positions.

to ME, that's pretty decent. To a guy whose standard is "Stand and Deliver in a cruiser and/or carrier" it's probably not.

It's ALL about Perspective, man...


I came off like the B'rel is a bad ship. That was a mistake, of course it's not,, its a solid PvP ship. I'm just really dislike that we arent filling actual holes in our lineup when given the chance. For instance, I agree that raptors are terrible, that's why we need a fleet ship to step up and fill the hole that our glut of mediocre raptors currently reside in. Turning one of our Naussican destroyers into a fleet ship and giving it an aggressive layout would have been a good move. Right now we have to turn to lock box ships like the Jem'hadar and temporal destroyer.

I understand why there are certain PvP players that might really dig this ship. Having said that, the B'rel is largely used as a gimmick torpedo ship to make Feds rage in Kerrat. If you fit a B'rel in a method thats more standard for a BoP, your only getting minor side grades to BoPs that already exist and fill those niches. The KDF has some huge holes in its ship lineup, this is not a ship we need.

Plus, BoPs just aren't great PvE ships, and like it or not this is primarily a PvE game. How many people are going to actually spend the money on this PvP oriented ship? I can't even get a queue to pop most nights. If you want to generate large scale interest so people get excited and are willing to spend money, you need to put in a ship that also appeals to PvEers. Something like an fleet Garamba or a Karfi would do that.


But if we are going to add this ship to the lineup, at least do it the right way. Give it a sci console so that someone might actually use something other than a universal in that slot, I can understand why it might not warrant a tac console (because its gimmicky nature would probably make it OP). The extra eng console will be used for a universal. Sure, you could put other stuff in there and see minor gains, but it won't be enough to sway people from using it as a universal on a BoP. At best, someone might use a tachoykentic, which is still a universal with an eng turn console built in.

Last edited by xantris; 11-27-2012 at 02:48 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,282
# 32
11-27-2012, 02:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
Universal consoles does not mean P2W consoles. There are plenty of consoles you can buy from the exchange, mission rewards, or from the reputation store.

For instance, you could buy cross faction consoles from the exchange. Assimilated Module, as far as I can tell, can still be earned from Assimilated, or can be bought from the Omega store. Zero-Point Energy Conduit can also be bought from the Romulan reputation store.
At some point I may get bored enough to try New Romulus again...ah, who am I kidding now? No way in hell that's going to happen, I tried it out on Tribble, found it to be deeply and thoroughly uninteresting. Nagus Dailies were more fun and had better content. (and, at very least, possessed less of an obvious and frankly insulting "your faction, it's history, even in the game-totally irrelevant" feeling.)

Thus, I probably will NOT be grinding for Romulan marks...like...ever.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 777
# 33
11-27-2012, 02:46 AM
I understand why Cryptic didn't give the Fleet B'rel a fourth tactical console. Its stats are already a direct copy of the Fleet Hoh'SuS, except for the turnrate. Giving it also the same console layout would have been not very original.

But I still think a fourth science console would have been better, just to give KDF-science characters a decent Tier 5 choice apart from the space whale (Carrier). Right now it's again only viable as a slightly more durable torpedo boat. Meh.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,282
# 34
11-27-2012, 03:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
I came off like the B'rel is a bad ship. That was a mistake, of course it's not,, its a solid PvP ship. I'm just really dislike that we arent filling actual holes in our lineup when given the chance. For instance, I agree that raptors are terrible, that's why we need a fleet ship to step up and fill the hole that our glut of mediocre raptors currently reside in. Turning one of our Naussican destroyers into a fleet ship and giving it an aggressive layout would have been a good move. Right now we have to turn to lock box ships like the Jem'hadar and temporal destroyer.

I understand why there are certain PvP players that might really dig this ship. Having said that, the B'rel is largely used as a gimmick torpedo ship to make Feds rage in Kerrat. If you fit a B'rel in a method thats more standard for a BoP, your only getting minor side grades to BoPs that already exist and fill those niches. The KDF has some huge holes in its ship lineup, this is not a ship we need.

Plus, BoPs just aren't great PvE ships, and like it or not this is primarily a PvE game. How many people are going to actually spend the money on this PvP oriented ship? I can't even get a queue to pop most nights. If you want to generate large scale interest so people get excited and are willing to spend money, you need to put in a ship that also appeals to PvEers. Something like an fleet Garamba or a Karfi would do that.


But if we are going to add this ship to the lineup, at least do it the right way. Give it a sci console so that someone might actually use something other than a universal in that slot, I can understand why it might not warrant a tac console (because its gimmicky nature would probably make it OP). The extra eng console will be used for a universal. Sure, you could put other stuff in there and see minor gains, but it won't be enough to sway people from using it as a universal on a BoP. At best, someone might use a tachoykentic, which is still a universal with an eng turn console built in.
put that way? your position makes a lot more sense to me. I too have a hell of a time finding a PvP que that pops, esp. with the big PvP fleets migrating en-masse to MWO with nobody moving in to take their place and fill that void.

I wouldn't say this is an entirely PvP bird-but you're right in that it's Klink PvP'ers who can make best use of it-but hasn't that always kind of been the case here in this game? We build ships like bops for PvP, then proceed to "Own" in PvE against (in comparison with) ships that are statistically far superior. (I run my Fleet Norgh with Assimilated 4-peice in ESTF pretty much all the time. It works rather well in CSE or as someone's wingman in KASE, or playing follow-you in Onslaught when I have a handy Sci to stick with, and the times when I bother doing ISE, it always pulls the plough for the poor clueless feds in their rainboats and Oddyties...)

On the PvP forum, one of the Gorny ships is noted as ALSO getting Fleet-Treatment in the Tribble zone. Most Gorn ships class as some kind of science vessel or some kind of carrier/sci hybrid, so we aren't JUST getting a nifty, new, and expensive B'rel. The lack of dedicated Sci capability is as big an issue for the KDF as any lack of a good "Escort" combatant (that isn't a tricked out BoP driven by a crazy person).

The thing I mainly see is, the Devs don't KNOW what to do for us, and that is partly because we, as a faction, really don't know what WE want-collectively.

(other than more and better content, some fixes to the UI so it's not so hard on the eyes, and some better costuming selections...)

What we CAN tell them, is that we want MORE ships-not just more BoPs, but more varied ships-some Fleetied Nausicaan destroyers would, indeed be rather nice, getting more science vessels (even from the Gorn_) on the rolls would be VERY nice. Start small, reward good behaviour, correct bad choices GENTLY, and test-test-test these things when they arrive on Tribble, send a feedback EVERY TIME you take one out on Tribble, give responses and log it so that when the bugs show up on "Live" (Holodeck) you can say, "Hey, I already reported that x weeks ago on Tribble"

aha, yep...

Fleet Varanus folks. We finally get a Sci ship-at all. (now, if they'd just give us one with some turning and running...)

Last edited by patrickngo; 11-27-2012 at 03:14 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,018
# 35
11-27-2012, 11:47 AM
lets look at this way , at least they didnt just bring out the fleet assault cruiser and excelsior and NOTHING for the KDF .
and it opens up more possibilities now for more fleet kdf ships to come ( hopefully )
12th Fleet
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,292
# 36
11-27-2012, 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrincy View Post
lets look at this way , at least they didnt just bring out the fleet assault cruiser and excelsior and NOTHING for the KDF .
and it opens up more possibilities now for more fleet kdf ships to come ( hopefully )
How are you liking that Vesta you used to talk about so much?
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 367
# 37
11-27-2012, 12:51 PM
i can say this with cerainty BOP's are the most versitile sci/tac ship in game. I used to dislike it for blowing up so much but the Brel R changed that with lightning fast damage and the ability to maintain at least sniping with a torp. i am very happy the Fleet Brel is here and look forward to getting on my main klingon as his ship of choice. she may be frail but she hits like a ton of bricks if you ambush a target. she is a great support vessel in terms of it can either hit a target with a blistering amount of damage or in the form of debuffs.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,305
# 38
11-27-2012, 01:38 PM
I own a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship. I will continue to fly her till the day Cryptic offer a viable alternative for an offensive KDF escort.

I have been waiting for two years. Now I just fly the JAS, and have given-up hoping.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,018
# 39
11-27-2012, 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild1 View Post
How are you liking that Vesta you used to talk about so much?
its great , i just wish they'd brought something for the kdf at the same time
12th Fleet
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 40
11-27-2012, 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
I own a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship. I will continue to fly her till the day Cryptic offer a viable alternative for an offensive KDF escort.

I have been waiting for two years. Now I just fly the JAS, and have given-up hoping.
This is me pretty much. I fly a Bug and a Krenn destroyer because we have no comparable alternatives

If it weren't for lockbox ships(and some extreme luck on the bug drop) I would have axed my Klingon pilot a long time ago.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:43 PM.