Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,549
Hey all.

It's pretty common knowledge that the three professions are hardly balanced. Tactical is waaaaay OP. Balance is really needed so that Engineering and Science are no longer treated like the red-headed step-children.

How to do it? Well, I believe that nerfing Tactical is NOT the way to do it. Tactical needs to hit harder with its weapons than anyone else. To take this away will ruin Tactical.

How to do it, then?

I'm thinking that each ship type should provide a bonus to skills of the same type. More plainly said, science powers should be buffed when fired from a science ship and engineering powers should be buffed when fired from a cruiser. These buffs should be in addition to any consoles and player stats.

In addition, a science captain on a science ship should get buffs, as should engineer captains on cruisers.

Why?

Well, I think it makes sense that a science ship would have more science equipment on it. Equipment that could be leveraged to activate those science abilities. It also follows that a science captain could leverage more from his ship than a Tactical or Engineer could. Also, the buffs should not be simple +X% to damage. Yes, some should, but not all of them. Some examples include...


Boarding party - Plus one shuttle with used on a cruiser or carrier. (Cruisers and carriers should have more hangar space.) Plus one more shuttle if captain is an engineer.

Energy Siphon - Extra duration if activated from a science ship. Extra drain if activated by a science captain.

All of these wonderful ideas sound nice and exciting for engineers and science. What about tactical? What would they get? I don't think they really should get more for the time being. Tactical is all about damage. They already have access to cannons (DC and DHC) and their abilities can buff non-tactical abilities. Remember, this idea is about bringing engineers and science up to tactical's level. (Just in case anyone thinks I'm bashing Tactical, two of my 4 toons are Tactical. One of them is my main.)

Constructive feedback anyone?
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,176
# 2
11-27-2012, 10:41 AM
not the ships, the captains should get boosts..
already FROM character creation. so that is not possible that:

a gravity well from my TAC is doing more DMG when played with all the attack patterns and TAC boosts,

than a GW does on my SCI.

so, my proposal - do NOT nerf TAC in any way.. but give every "class" a boost.

TAC stays as is , or gets 5% crit on weapon dmg
SCI gets +20% effectivity on all sci powers, 10% dmg on all sci powers
ENG gets +15% effectivity on all engi powers, 10% dmg on all eng powers

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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,549
# 3
11-27-2012, 11:00 AM
I see where you're going with that. I agree that a science should be able to produce the most devastating grav wells. Engineering should heal the most. Tac already damages the most.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 4
11-27-2012, 11:26 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post

Tactical is waaaaay OP.
I agree and disagree equally. Tacs are only OP becuase thier Captain abilities buff powers that are not tied directly to a weapon perse.
Remove Tacs ability to buff Sience powers and the OPness perception may go away as they would only be buffing that which falls into a tactical billiwack. so to speak.


As far as giving Engineering and Science buffs on abilities for using them in thier class ships would the same be afforded to Tacs in escorts and escort hybrids?

speaking as the devil advocate that is....
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,549
# 5
11-27-2012, 11:36 AM
[quote=bitemepwe;6813641]
Quote:

I agree and disagree equally. Tacs are only OP becuase thier Captain abilities buff powers that are not tied directly to a weapon perse.
Remove Tacs ability to buff Sience powers and the OPness perception may go away as they would only be buffing that which falls into a tactical billiwack. so to speak.


As far as giving Engineering and Science buffs on abilities for using them in thier class ships would the same be afforded to Tacs in escorts and escort hybrids?

speaking as the devil advocate that is....
Good point. They should only affect weapons.

Do you think sci ships should hit harder with their abilities, though?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 6
11-27-2012, 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post

Do you think sci ships should hit harder with their abilities, though?
I have no issue in the Careers excelling at what they are trained in as you suggested. An Engineer should find a ship designed or favoring Engineers to function slightly better in the hands. The same should go for all ships specced to thier specific classes.

That was the original premise of having ships set to a class. Using them accordingly gives the best return while an off career Captain would still function but not as well giving up that sympatico for the use of the bonus of using the differing Captain abilities they bring to the build.

I hope that made sense. I think my wording is clumsy.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 376
# 7
11-27-2012, 11:46 AM
Oh well, don't bring the whole class discussion to the Boff-Abilities. It is ok, if an ability of a Boff acts the same way for a tactical captain, as it would act for a science or enginnering captain.

Scince you didn't tell us what you complain about (space or ground combat), I'll start with ground: On the ground a mixed team (tactical, science and engineering captains) will always be the best performing. They resist more damage (engineering-bunker) and heal up (medic). Here is only one little problem: A tactical captain can also heal his team and increase the damage resistence using Rally-Cry.
This mixed ability is a little overpowered.

In space there are bigger differences: Science ships lag 1 weapon-slot compared to escorts and escorts can use stronger weapons (dual cannons). Ok, you could pack dual cannons on an Atrox, but it misses the turn-rate to use them efficently.
Cruisers have one weapon-slot more then Escorts, but they have got only about 50% of the turn-rate of an escort. This leads to all-beam-builds.

But with those new rewards from the reputation-system (the Romulan Console), science ships and cruisers will get a little higher rewards, because it boosts all power-levels and there's simply "no use for auxilary on an escort". If we get more rewards like this, balancing the 3 classes should be possible.
First one half of the so called Community complains: "Give us instant access to all veteran rewards, for going lifetime.", then the other half of the same Community complains: "I've earned 1000 Day membership, I want a special reward.".
Stop complaining, if it is enough for you, you could have the "Captains Table" for the real veterans, I don't want access to another dead social zone...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 990
# 8
11-27-2012, 01:06 PM
Maybe the key is to scale the effectiveness of captain skills according to class. At the moment, the only difference between characters of different class ranking in the same skill is that one might be able to train a Boff in something as a result. Make it so you get a % boost in same-class skills.

There's no reason my Tac captain should be getting the same result from Eng and Sci skills as their appropriate classes do. This would make TacScorts more fragile, while giving engineers more ability to tank and scientists more devastating sci powers. It also might help engineers tank in an escort and tacs DPS in a cruiser. Not as well as if they used their favored ship type, but could still lead to some variety.

Ships already grant power boosts that should (theoretically) favor their associated class. Maybe this needs to be more pronounced, but that's all I would do with ships.

I overall agree with the need to do something though. I fly a tac captain in escorts. As it stands, I have no reason to use my Eng alt or start a Sci. I should be blowing up in STF and FA unless my Eng and Sci teammates help me.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 724
# 9
11-27-2012, 02:48 PM
Thats why I play mostly ground....much more balanced there...My SCI can outlast any DPS attack from a TACT even if they pull all the cloak attacks they want
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,036
# 10
11-27-2012, 03:02 PM
I have said many times my personal opinion on this matter.

1) Sensor scan should lower target's science skill resists as well.
2) Sci Cap. AoE Defensive thingie should buff science skill resists as well.
3) Miracle Worker should be usable on others AND cleanse all negative effects
4) Eng Cap. Shield ability should be usable on others and yourself at the same time.
5) EPTS Transfer and Nadion Inversion should make energy levels grant a higher effect (IE instead of 2% damage per 1 weapon power 2.2% damage)
6) Fire on my Mark should reduce a target's defense rating as well, that aspect should be cleared by something other than tac team.

Everyone gets a buff!

The idea of a class being tied to a hull is repulsive to me. Instead I think all careers should have a focus. Tacs bring the pain, Sci gets to mess with you, and Eng keeps you alive and makes power better. That makes sense to me and works well with any hull(s).
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