Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 434
# 1 Star Field Of Dreams
11-27-2012, 03:45 PM
If you build it, they will come.

The premise is that PvP won't get the attention we've been promised unless or until we get more people to play. Boot camp and openness about builds with new players are all well and good but doesn't this seem backwards?

PvP has been virtually neglected for years. It suffers from failure to be seriously considered in either long term or short term design plans. Almost every new thing introduced to the game has some detrimental impact on the quality of PvP. And yet this is the state of the game that we are supposed to be trying to sucker... er... intice new players to step into?

To what end? See who and how many can stomach this nonsense in hopes that one day enough will come along to warrant a complete change in some season down the road? I don't understand the logic that says this aspect of the game is very important to our overlords but also that they won't fix it until more people express interest in it.

But then again, they've been stringing a few of us along with promises and hope with little substance for years. Maybe it's just easier this way.
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 735
# 2
11-27-2012, 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehale View Post
If you build it, they will come.

The premise is that PvP won't get the attention we've been promised unless or until we get more people to play. .
Im agree with you, is ridiculus, how they pretend that ppl play PvP if they don't put any attention on it? Even they admited in a blog entry that "pvp sucks in he current state".

If they want ppl to play PvP, give to ppl a reason for it, dosn't work in the other way.
John Sheridan@playhard88 - FED Tactical
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 197
# 3
11-27-2012, 05:43 PM
To be fair, I think we all know the truth deep down. Cryptic as a company can't just come out and say "we really don't care about pvp". From a business standpoint, that makes no sense as long as they are still making money at it. However, where I think they cross the line is when they make promises they have no intention of keeping.

The writings on the wall.
If it walks like it back and talk like a duck...
Actions be louder than words

All of these one liners are basically saying the same thing. They all point to the fact that cryptic doesn't care about Pvp. Let's look at their actions and history.

Broken promises
Can't keep a dev that will work on Pvp
Inability to balance the game
Won't hire a dev that knows how to pvp
No new content
Won't fix bugs that are detrimental to Pvp
Money grab items targeted at PVP'ers

Some of us have seen these patterns for years now while some of us are new and don't realize how long this has been going on. The question you have to ask yourself is how long can a company treat their customers this way before you realize that it's not getting any better. The answer to this question is different for each person but eventually it will always be reached
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 394
# 4
11-27-2012, 09:00 PM
It might interest you to know that both Borticus and Branflakes attended the first conference call for boot camp, and there is actually a lot of enthusiam from the dev team about fixing PvP, but they need to be able to show PWE that it is worth the investment to focus on it. Both Bran and Bort are PERSONALLY interested in PvP and are doing everything they can to get it pushed up the priority list.

As far as your other points, cheese consoles etc. aside a lot of players need help with every basic things to be able to be enjoy PvP such as builds, keybinds and al the things we learn thorugh PvP that we don;t need to know in the "so easy I can faceroll it" world od PvE. You don't have to be part od theeffort but to downtalk the fact that a group of us are willing to give of our time and energy to help do what we can for PvP is just plain thoughtless.

We cahnge things one person at a time in the real world, same thing applies here.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,487
# 5
11-27-2012, 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by glassguitar View Post
It might interest you to know that both Borticus and Branflakes attended the first conference call for boot camp, and there is actually a lot of enthusiam from the dev team about fixing PvP, but they need to be able to show PWE that it is worth the investment to focus on it. Both Bran and Bort are PERSONALLY interested in PvP and are doing everything they can to get it pushed up the priority list.

As far as your other points, cheese consoles etc. aside a lot of players need help with every basic things to be able to be enjoy PvP such as builds, keybinds and al the things we learn thorugh PvP that we don;t need to know in the "so easy I can faceroll it" world od PvE. You don't have to be part od theeffort but to downtalk the fact that a group of us are willing to give of our time and energy to help do what we can for PvP is just plain thoughtless.

We cahnge things one person at a time in the real world, same thing applies here.
Did you happen to inquire why Borticus wrote using a bug which allows for Boff abilities outside of the design isn't considered exploiting or griefing?

Why they won't enforce exploiting or griefing? Perhaps there are other parts of their own ToS they don't want to enforce?

How about how that same bug has been around for years and it and others show up again after every major patch?

Why despite claims of a fix in the pipeline, it still isn't after 2 patches?

Why a team of fleet members PvPing don't get Fleet merits?

How about why there hasn't been a Dev who's publically assumed the role of the last "PvP Dev"?

How about the Mgt has said they don't want PvP and won't put resources into PvP?

How every Mgt choice to weaken PvP has been made?

1a. You know things like the previously mention reward system creating nothing but PvE grinds which are needed to improve PvP builds yet only available via PvE.

1b. Then using PvE vs PvP playtime as a reason to justify lack of PvP investment.

2. Lack of balance, varying degrees of P2W

3. Lack of MMO scaled PvP environments

4. No PvP foundry features despite requests for such since the foundry was in its design phase

5. Influx of NPC pet spam

6. Abilities which can't be countered (ie timeship's)

7. Opening up FvF PvP instead of expanding existing cross faction PvP playability

8. Gating KDF character creation by needing to make a Fed 1st and be leveled

9. Never fixing the only Open system PvPvE environment after it's been broken for years

10. Doffs and other items being broken for months if not longer

11. Nothing to actually compete for in PvP win or lose it doesn't matter.

12. Having the only means to do controlled tests (private queues) be shut down.

13. Having little if any testing time on Tribble.

14. Not having any power adjustments made the few times we get to test something on tribble.

15. Zero accountablitiy on Cryptic's part in 1. identifying significant bugs, 2. informing players on bugs 3. enforcing the ToS for those who exploit/grief using said bugs

I could go on and you may feel free to do what you want, but after putting up with a crappy product w/an EP who lies and teaches his employees to lie I will express myself as I see fit. Make no mistake it wasn't Bort who ran that "it's technically not an exploit" b.s. talking point out. It came from the EP bser.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 197
# 6
11-27-2012, 10:07 PM
posted 10/16/2012 in regards to the temporal set

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
We've said it before: All powers should have a counter and/or resistance.

So, look for this to be updated in the future.
Has it happened yet?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 574
# 7
11-28-2012, 12:42 AM
Well, it's good they can find time to fix scarfs and other crap...
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...

Last edited by trueprom3theus; 11-28-2012 at 12:45 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 574
# 8
11-28-2012, 12:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Did you happen to inquire why Borticus wrote using a bug which allows for Boff abilities outside of the design isn't considered exploiting or griefing?

Why they won't enforce exploiting or griefing? Perhaps there are other parts of their own ToS they don't want to enforce?

How about how that same bug has been around for years and it and others show up again after every major patch?

Why despite claims of a fix in the pipeline, it still isn't after 2 patches?

Why a team of fleet members PvPing don't get Fleet merits?

How about why there hasn't been a Dev who's publically assumed the role of the last "PvP Dev"?

How about the Mgt has said they don't want PvP and won't put resources into PvP?

How every Mgt choice to weaken PvP has been made?

1a. You know things like the previously mention reward system creating nothing but PvE grinds which are needed to improve PvP builds yet only available via PvE.

1b. Then using PvE vs PvP playtime as a reason to justify lack of PvP investment.

2. Lack of balance, varying degrees of P2W

3. Lack of MMO scaled PvP environments

4. No PvP foundry features despite requests for such since the foundry was in its design phase

5. Influx of NPC pet spam

6. Abilities which can't be countered (ie timeship's)

7. Opening up FvF PvP instead of expanding existing cross faction PvP playability

8. Gating KDF character creation by needing to make a Fed 1st and be leveled

9. Never fixing the only Open system PvPvE environment after it's been broken for years

10. Doffs and other items being broken for months if not longer

11. Nothing to actually compete for in PvP win or lose it doesn't matter.

12. Having the only means to do controlled tests (private queues) be shut down.

13. Having little if any testing time on Tribble.

14. Not having any power adjustments made the few times we get to test something on tribble.

15. Zero accountablitiy on Cryptic's part in 1. identifying significant bugs, 2. informing players on bugs 3. enforcing the ToS for those who exploit/grief using said bugs

I could go on and you may feel free to do what you want, but after putting up with a crappy product w/an EP who lies and teaches his employees to lie I will express myself as I see fit. Make no mistake it wasn't Bort who ran that "it's technically not an exploit" b.s. talking point out. It came from the EP bser.
That's pretty much everything I can think of asking the cryptic management... You can't have a big pvp player base as long as you keep neglecting pvp. They know it but don't care and keep dstahl us with "it's coming soon" theme. Lame!
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 434
# 9
11-28-2012, 01:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by glassguitar View Post
It might interest you to know that both Borticus and Branflakes attended the first conference call for boot camp, and there is actually a lot of enthusiam from the dev team about fixing PvP, but they need to be able to show PWE that it is worth the investment to focus on it. Both Bran and Bort are PERSONALLY interested in PvP and are doing everything they can to get it pushed up the priority list.

As far as your other points, cheese consoles etc. aside a lot of players need help with every basic things to be able to be enjoy PvP such as builds, keybinds and al the things we learn thorugh PvP that we don;t need to know in the "so easy I can faceroll it" world od PvE. You don't have to be part od theeffort but to downtalk the fact that a group of us are willing to give of our time and energy to help do what we can for PvP is just plain thoughtless.

We cahnge things one person at a time in the real world, same thing applies here.
It would interest me more if I could see something tangible that pointed to their words being somehow different from the lip service of the past. I also fully support the idea of players supporting players to make a troubled game better. I certainly didn't mean to sound like that isn't significant. It is! It's just more than a little backwards.

If you build it, they will come. If it works when they get here they might even stay.
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,619
# 10
11-28-2012, 01:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueprom3theus View Post
Well, it's good they can find time to fix scarfs and other crap...
I wish my Bat'leth didn't cut my right arm off repeatedly while running. It's not that big a deal on my Fed, since I prefer the Naus blade - but I went to Gre'thor and back for that Bat'leth on my KDF.

BTW, it's clear that PWE needs a means to monetize PvP before they will put any major effort into it. With lock boxes, ship sales for consoles, etc, etc, etc - being a primary means of making money from the game for them - it doesn't bode well for PvP when those things are among the list of complaints.

If you want them to improve PvP, come up with ideas to help them take your money in ways that you're more comfortable with them taking it...

edit: pesky typos/grammar - it's 5 AM, ffs.


"Wheeeee, this is kind of fun. Oopsie...my bad."
Fleet Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
Arcadia, Benthan Assault Cruiser

Last edited by virusdancer; 11-28-2012 at 02:04 AM.
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