Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,652
# 71
11-27-2012, 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
As you said, makes most people's brains hurt. I understand how that works, and think it's incredibly stupid. And you're correct, most likely nobody is listening. XD
Damage is linear while defences use a [1-1/(1+x)] type of model to prevent reducing damage to zero. If resistances stacked in a linear fashion then you could conceivably reach 100% resistance and avoid all damage, regardless of how much an attacker buffed it. That's what you need to keep in mind, they are independent of each other. Attackers deal damage while defenders resist percentages. That's why it doesn't matter how high an attacker buffs their damage, a defender will always take a % of it. The higher the resistances the lower the % taken.

This type of damage mitigation is often favored in game design because it allows a lot of latitude without being limited by hard caps. Granted it gets hit with ridiculous DR at high defensive values and then it becomes a design balancing act as gear inflation takes place. I would even propose the reason we haven't seen ships really go up in power dramatically is an attempt to keep gear progression in check since they already know that defences are already hitting really high percentages if players really decide to go for it.

Edit: I agree that a mere +2 to turning would make cruisers a lot more fun to play and would even add their effectiveness since they could more reliably get to critical spots.

Also, I think its true that in the game's original design all ships did comparable damage and had comparable survivability... they would just go about it in different ways. I don't know WHY that plan was abandoned as it really would make the game more interesting.

All that said I think cruisers suffer the most from having poor pilots. Lets not kid ourselves, for a new player leveling in an escort or sci vessel is HARD. They don't know how to stay alive and deal damage so they gravitate towards cruisers that can easily carry anyone through the PvE levelling content without actually teaching anything about how to play. I know this because that's what I did. It wasn't until I saw someone being effective with a non cruiser that I started to look at HOW to build ships and use them properly. I would say a lot of the people complaining cruisers are drastically underpowered have noticed others playing well and instead of choosing to learn themselves prefer to complain. Perhaps they are a cruiser fan that desperately wants their favorite ships to be above all others in everything, perhaps they simply don't think they should be forced to learn a totally different game than the one they played while pve leveling in a cruiser (a valid complain actually), or maybe they are still in the process of learning and will understand how to get the most out of their ships eventually.

On the other hand if someone's complaint is that the way the ship roles have evolved into high dps/medium survivability, medium dps/high survivability, and High CC/medium survivability is not to their liking and has several flaws as a system... that can be valid. Honestly, at this point I'm not sure how to bring all ships to do equal DPS, while having equal survivability... except maybe making cruisers more like escorts? Lower their defences while adding a few points of turning and maybe switching an eng console to a tac one? Admittedly what I suggest is more or less making fed cruisers into KDF battlecruisers. Do KDF players feel their cruisers are underpowered too?

Last edited by skyranger1414; 11-27-2012 at 12:23 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,825
# 72
11-27-2012, 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post

Also, I think its true that in the game's original design all ships did comparable damage and had comparable survivability... they would just go about it in different ways. I don't know WHY that plan was abandoned as it really would make the game more interesting.

On the other hand if someone's complaint is that the way the ship roles have evolved into high dps/medium survivability, medium dps/high survivability, and High CC/medium survivability is not to their liking and has several flaws as a system... that can be valid. Honestly, at this point I'm not sure how to bring all ships to do equal DPS, while having equal survivability... except maybe making cruisers more like escorts? Lower their defences while adding a few points of turning and maybe switching an eng console to a tac one? Admittedly what I suggest is more or less making fed cruisers into KDF battlecruisers. Do KDF players feel their cruisers are underpowered too?
This is exactly why I feel they are underpowered and no I do not find the KDF battlecruiers I fly (2 of 'em) to be underpowered. Actually I feel my fleet Vor'Cha is a bit overpowered but its all good.

How to make them all deal equal amounts of damage is also very simple even if the Devs refuse to do it aside from adding new gear/doff stuff to compensate.

1) Make passive hull regeneration in combat meaningful.
2) Fix power drain mechanics so they stop favoring DHCs so much.
3) Add rear beam arrays with 8 power drain that can only be placed in the rear. Reduce the arc by 10% if needed to keep damage similar.
4) Add 180 degree torpedoes that are not a) found on a single ship nor b) Mk X only.

Aside from a quick balance pass to boff abilities that is all one would need to do.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 210
# 73
11-27-2012, 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
^^^^ This guy knows what's up. Listen and learn, folks.
Oh please. Learn what, how he does things, under the circumstances he finds himself? I keep myself alive just fine, all the while delivering adult-sized DPS, and this without having to depend on a cruiser to do it. If I haven't learned to mitigate damage all by my lonesome, by now, then I would deserve the handle "useless."
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,652
# 74
11-27-2012, 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
4) Add 180 degree torpedoes that are not a) found on a single ship nor b) Mk X only.

A
What? Something wrong with the Regent's one redeeming quality? If you REALLY want a second 180 degree weapon how about the lobi rapid fire missiles?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,825
# 75
11-28-2012, 01:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
What? Something wrong with the Regent's one redeeming quality? If you REALLY want a second 180 degree weapon how about the lobi rapid fire missiles?
I refuse to pay that much cash for a weapon type that has no realistic reason not to exist as a standard option. If I wish to fly a broadside ship with a torpedo that does not reduce my overall DPS output I should not be forced to spend $25 for it. I don't care if I can only slot one of them or eight of them.

And its not like I cannot afford it. I purchase 3 new Cstore ships this month alone. It is the principal of the matter.

I find that just as repulsive as paying cash for a skill respec when cryptic refuses to give the players the necessary information to make an informed decision. Especially when some of the information they do provide is flat-out false.

But hey, that is just me.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,459
# 76
11-28-2012, 01:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
This is exactly why I feel they are underpowered and no I do not find the KDF battlecruiers I fly (2 of 'em) to be underpowered. Actually I feel my fleet Vor'Cha is a bit overpowered but its all good.
Fleet Vor'cha isn't even really a cruiser anymore, in my book. They should have upgraded the Vor'cha's ensign tactical to lieutenant tactical and given it the extra tactical console, and called it good. They went too far by giving it LTC tactical and chopping the engineering.

Which really just underscores the fact that anything tactical has waaaaaaay more impact on your game performance generally than anything else. Tactical wins fights, engineering prolongs them, and science is a weird grab bag of useful gadgets and completely pointless "cooldown is HOW long??" novelties.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,332
# 77
11-28-2012, 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
The problem is that burst is so extremely high in STO at the minute that not having Tac Team would actually be worse for snoozers, because they can't manually maneuver themselves to protect a dead shield facing.
A well equipped Excelsior can manually maneuver to give a fresh shield facing to its enemy. Other cruisers, not so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
IMO one of the best ways to fix TT would be to have a good long look at reworking the crew mechanic and then tying crew (or "efficiency" or whatever Cryptic wants to call it this month) into TT's automatic shield distro. So a snoozer with a big healthy crew will distribute shields no sweat, while an escort that's taken a heavy beating and only has one or two men standing will struggle.
All of the "____ Team" abilities should have a multiplier tied to its crew level. It would make higher crew level ships of a class (Star Cruiser, Nebula, the old "Fleet Escort") more useful.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 152
# 78
11-28-2012, 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
I thought one did gain a better SHield Resist score the higher one's SHield Power was ingame.
No, it just gives you a slightly better regen when you hit distribute shield power as well as passive shield regen. NOT more resistance.

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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,825
# 79
11-28-2012, 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by krayuskorianis View Post
No, it just gives you a slightly better regen when you hit distribute shield power as well as passive shield regen. NOT more resistance.
False. It gives both resistance and shield regen. It double dips and is extremely...stronger in effectiveness than engine or auxiliary power just like weapon power is very strong with the math.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
All of the "____ Team" abilities should have a multiplier tied to its crew level. It would make higher crew level ships of a class (Star Cruiser, Nebula, the old "Fleet Escort") more useful.
I believe they do, just not on the important factor. Tac Team skill bonus gets lower the more of your crew that die off it just does not effect the shield transfer rate last I checked.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,312
# 80
11-28-2012, 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by krayuskorianis View Post
No, it just gives you a slightly better regen when you hit distribute shield power as well as passive shield regen. NOT more resistance.
Really? Having a high shield power setting does nothing to help a shields damage resistance?

Quote:
Shields
The Shields subsystem controls how effective your Shield Array is at regenerating shield power every six seconds. It does not affect how much shield strength your shield facings have.

50 power into this system represents 100% shield regeneration as given on your Shield Array tooltip. Every additional point of power applied to this subsystem will increase your shield regeneration value by 4%. Every point of power under 50 will reduce your shield regeneration by 4%.

Higher shield power also improves shield resistance. At 125 power, shields gain an innate resistance of 35%
That sucks, I've been working on the premise it helped.
He who laughs last thinks slowest.
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