Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,118
# 51
11-29-2012, 07:36 AM
I log in daily still, but for fewer hours on average compared to S6. The hours I am on are often idle.

I spend more time Doffing now than anything, it is the only way to get fleet marks, which the fleet just can't get by grinding or working as a fleet anymore.. ya, great design decision there.

My guess is the fleet logs on a lot less because of the same issues, they can't really achieve anything, can't max out dilithium, can't put in a serious dent into fleet marks.. so if you can't achieve something, why are you playing? Despair is a huge factor right now.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 427
# 52
11-29-2012, 07:54 AM
I haven't noticed a drop in activity.

'course, I've only logged in three times since season 7 went live.
Joined August 2008
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 749
# 53
11-29-2012, 08:04 AM
I don't like the trash-compactor style advancement for Fleet and Reputation. It goes like this:

Day 1
You log in.
You stuff resources into a project.
You log out.
Day 2
You log in.
You stuff resources into a project.
You log out.
Day 3
You log in.
You stuff resources into a project.
You log out.
Day 4
You log in.
You stuff resources into a project.
You log out.

.... And on and on and ON AND ON like that until you just get sick and tired of it. You funnel all of your credits into buying resources for projects, and you spend all of your time playing the same fleet missions over and over again to get fleet marks to spend on projects. And then you either have to spend credits on dilithium or grind it yourself on top of that... It's grating. I don't think any normal human being could possibly enjoy this type of game.

I want to say that I liked what they did with the Duty Officer System. It was enjoyable to fly around exploring different sectors doing DOff missions. Why? It was new, unique, and as a former Pokemon player, I wanted to collect them all. Plus there wasn't very much to lose getting DOff's except time spent playing. I liked it.

In contrast, these trash compactor systems are very un-creative and become financial and resource sink-holes. They are boring, repetitive, and end up becoming stale for everyone. On top of that, there is loss inflicted upon any fleet that tries to advance through the ranks, and I'm not sure if the recompense you get is entirely worth it. How many millions of credits have you spent on fleet projects so far? For what? Have you received tangible items that you consider worth everything you spent?

What we need is something more engaging and FUN to replace Fleet and Reputation advancement systems. It also needs to be something that doesn't incur anything except loss of time spent playing upon the player.

I kind of wonder why we can't fly to New Romulus and do some dailies for them to gain reputation with them. I don't know about you guys, but I like shooting things and blowing stuff up much more than I like stuffing a trash bin full of supplies every day.

Fleet advancement should be more involved too. How about something similar to what EVE Online did with planet management? Let us found a colony on a planet and start building some buildings. We could have buildings that produce daily amounts of Fleet Marks, or Dilithium, or offer special Duty Officer missions, creative stuff like that. I'm not saying this is an answer either, I just think its one example of something more fun, unique, and creative than using a trash compactor.

Just my opinion.
Click here to watch me open 300 Undine lockboxes!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 392
# 54
11-29-2012, 09:47 AM
There are several issues synergizing to cause an apparent or real drop. Now this is only from my perspective, but I have also observed a drop in active players through seeing who is on from my friends list, who is on in the fleets I am in, and queue times. In talking with many of my friends and regularly surfing the forums, these six issues are outstanding.

The first issue is the general dissatisfaction of Season 7. Each seasonal release brings new content and systems. The unfortunate thing is the new system is now a third Facebook Style system. The DOFF System was perfect for this type of set-up and hit it well. The Fleet System, well a second type was fine because it balanced the DOFF system ? you had a system to generate resources and a system to serve as a sink. Now using this for sole basis of the Reputation System is where many are having issues. The Rep System serves as a personal resource sink but with a third grind attached to it.

The second issue is the launch/re-launch/beta of a few additional titles. There is now a F2P MMOFPS just recently launched, a major themepark MMO recently went F2P, and a third game in beta with better PvP. Many people I personally know have migrated to one of those three games. The migration was heightened by the dissatisfaction with S7 and last minute changes to the games economics. People will migrate and try out new things in their quest to have fun. Some may return, some will not, and some will migrate again. That is just how it goes with games.

The third issue is the tedium of the grinds placed before the playerbase and the limited avenues of rewarding gameplay. I will say that Cryptic has held to its word that the initial season launch will mainly be system oriented. However, inter-season bug fixes and content deployment has been sorely lacking. Take the Fleet System for example, there have been no ?new? fleet events since the launch of S6 and we are stuck grinding the same few missions. Additionally, no new DOFF expansions or chains since the launch of the last FE. The DOFF system has received some attention, but that has been overshadowed by the nerfs and taxes added to it. The STFs did at least get two new missions and we did get a new adventure zone, but this still leads to the fourth issue.

The fourth issue is that players do not feel that all types of content in game are equally rewarding for the time invested. Although the Reputation System does offer somewhat more diversity in how to grind than the Fleet System, both suffer from a limited amount of content that must be highly repeated. Exploration does not feel very rewarding since the launch to F2P, crafting has never felt very rewarding and was made worse with the launch to F2P, I can go on and on with other systems. The bottom line is that players are feeling the pressure of being forced into types of gameplay they may or may not like.

The fifth issue is the heavy monetization of the game. It is obvious to everyone Cryptic needs to keep the lights on and needs to pay the bills, this is understood by the playerbase. The constant sales, promotions, lock-boxes, and items to purchase are omnipresent. However, the main tactics used (especially the push for zen ? dilithium conversions) are being seen dissatisfactory by the playerbase. Take the fleet ships (especially the Klingon ones), after heavy grinding through a heavily monetized system, the end product is also heavily monetized and very marginally improved. This leads to a lack-of-value feeling. Now each player is going to have a different perspective on what they feel is ?value? for their dollar but overwhelmingly on the forums here the overall feeling is quite obvious.

The final issue is that many people are just tired of waiting. STO has suffered greatly since launch for a great lack of diversity. The current dev team has been trying hard (and doing admirably) of trying to play catch-up since. A transition to new ownership and to a F2P model has not helped the growth of this game. The lack of progress on some long-standing gameplay issues with STO (PvP, Exploration, Crafting, Klingon Content, Foundry Integration) is apparent. The development of this game now suffers from the rapid push of systems and content to meet these demands then the subsequent lack of polish and testing time further dissuades many. Now approaching its middle-age (yes three years is middle age for an MMO), many people are simply giving up.

I feel for the dev team, they have the heart but seems they have had an uphill battle with STO since launch. I am highly critical of the game, but still play and still somewhat enjoy the game, simply because I am a Star Trek fan. I?ll probably always play the game whether it is my primary or not, but I can say that if I feel something more enjoyable comes along, my time in game would drop.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 76
# 55 Gamers abandoning STO :(
11-29-2012, 05:12 PM
Dear stuff,

I want you to inform that with these last changes you did in season 7, lots of players turned into 2 click mode. Players come online, say hi and leave, or go at exchange and do ferengi business.

Talking with them, I found they are disappointed, there is no dilithium where to gather. Starbase projects didnt moved from the day season 7 started. Smaller fleets loose their members, moving to bigger fleets who already have tier IV. Embassy projects are at beginning, same reason, no dilithium.

One thing left to do is trading at the market.. and that is boring.

I hope you dont like to turn STO into 2 click game per day for the daily missions, and after a period all gamers to leave.

Also i hope you dont want to exist only 1-2 fleets where all players that will stay in the game will be togheter.

Fix the game and take the game out from the depression.

Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 948
# 56
11-29-2012, 05:18 PM
2011 was the content depression
2012 is turning out to be the Dilithium Depression
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 35
# 57
11-29-2012, 05:22 PM
Originally Posted by captainbmoney View Post
2011 was the content depression
2012 is turning out to be the Dilithium Depression
That statement is painfully true. I can only hope that the upcoming ability to convert Marks into Dilithium makes this all worthwhile, or I can't see myself having much reason to log on.

Cryptic, please make the conversion of Marks give a high enough amount of Dilithium to give me reason to keep playing.
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Original Username - njdss4 - Original Join Date - July 28, 2008 (Official Forum Launch Date)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,746
# 58
11-29-2012, 06:01 PM
I don't really get where players on these forums are getting the inactivity claims. PvP is 10x more active than it was pre-season seven. There have been literally no changes in the queue timing for STFs and other PvE content. I have seen absolutely no drop in the number of players logging on friends list since season seven launch. The addition of marks and dilithium to fleet actions has significantly helped my ~45 member fleet. As for all of these "increased grind claims", everything needed to update the fleet starbase can be obtained through the duty officer system (marks, dilithium, EC, commodities). It is just a matter of how fast a base progresses through using just the doff system. The only added "grind" is the fact that you have to run 1 STF (15 minutes) and 2 vault shuttle events (10 minutes) a day in order to meet your mark quota to keep the XP projects rolling.

If a player wants to max their dilithium, all they really need to do is 9-15 PvP matches (1 - 4 hours, depends on how well matched the teams are) or 6-7 Elite STFs (1 hour 45 minutes - 3 hours) or 12-16 fleet actions (2 -3 hours). That is assuming the player only earned 800 dilithium from the duty officer system that day and you are running these missions in PUG. Running these missions with fleetmates will shave off an hour or so. Ths also doesn't even go into the fairly quick daily missions in Deferi Space, Starfleet academy, explore strange new worlds, or the Eta Eridani Sector block.

The duty officer system can be a sole source of dilithium. You may not hit the cap every day, but you will come close. I usually get around 4000-7000 dilithium from the system if I am trying to use the reputation system for dilithium grinding. Sure, it takes time traveling throughout the galaxy picking up specific projects (about 45 minutes) and hoping for a crit, but it can be worth it. The projects are certainly a nice alternative if I don't feel like grinding through missions. Running the turn in contraband assignment will significantly decrease the number of missions you need to hit the cap (2000 dilithium for 5 contraband). A critical success on Dilithium Mining will result in a 1000 dilithium reward. Turning in 1 of each type of prototype weapons platform plans to "Gamma Quadrant Allies" will give 1000 dilithium on normal and 3000 dilithium on crit, along with three large stacks of gamma quadrant commodities. Resettle colonists (500 dilithium) and resolve missions also give high rewards.

So to be perfectly honest, I don't see why there is an outcry over the dilithium changes. Nor do I see where the inactivity claims currently sweeping the forums is coming from. Cryptic nerfed the hell out of the tier 0 and 1 projects to a point where I could solo them with relative ease if I wanted to. Tier II is much tougher, but even small fleets can advance quite steadily with some effort. It doesn't take dozens of players to get to tier III in a decent amount of time. That's just my two energy credits.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,746
# 59
11-29-2012, 06:07 PM
Originally Posted by njdmb30 View Post
That statement is painfully true. I can only hope that the upcoming ability to convert Marks into Dilithium makes this all worthwhile, or I can't see myself having much reason to log on.

Cryptic, please make the conversion of Marks give a high enough amount of Dilithium to give me reason to keep playing.
Conversion rate will be 50 Marks to 500 dilithium. Elite STFs give 60 marks (75 with the optional) plus their base 960 dilithium and 1 BNP. 5 BNP = 1000 dilithium. Assuming you run STFs in groups of 5, you will earn (960*5) + 1000 + [(60*5 /50)*500] = 8800 dilithium. FIVE Elite STFs a day and you will have 8800 dilithium. And that doesn't account for the extra 75 marks you would make if you get the optional on each one. I don't know about you, but I can get through all but cure ground in 15-20 minutes. So in 100 minutes you will have more than the max cap for dilithium. I think that sounds very nice.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 447
# 60
11-29-2012, 07:13 PM
Dithilium grind bullying players into buying Z-points and instead just making most leave
Too much P2W
Really bad Romulan models
Too far divorced from lore

How to fix it
Hire competent devs to solve bugs and design good NPC models
Hire better lore writers who understand Trek
Hire leads who know how to manage a MMO (preferably talent from outside the industry as no one in the industry today has a credible claim to having any idea how to do so)

Will it happen
The man in Beijing says 'lolno'

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