Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 197
# 71
12-02-2012, 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomicile View Post
1) Where Tricobalts are concerned, there is no difference between DPA and DPB. They both launch the same number of mines at their respective Ranks.

which only proves my point of why use beta that you admit is "off" instead of alpha if there is no drawback to it?

2) I already had DPB III from a Rare BoFF mission reward.

yeah, buying boffs with dpb3 off the exchange is so expensive...

3) Does DPA III even exist? I've yet to see it. Therefore, does anyone even use it?

this actually is a valid point. Using a commander ability for mines has always been a ridiculous notion until people learned they could exploit DPB. I guess I've never even tried to look for DPA due to this. Just out of curiosity, you ever use dpb3 with any other kind of mines for a long period of time?

In my experience, since I'm not the only one using Tric mines, they're easy to deal with. You sacrifice a lot to make them effective. It's an all or nothing ability you get to use once every 45 seconds. They're easily avoidable and killable, Cruisers and Carriers shield and hull tank these easy enough.

There are a million things broken in PvP that are exploitable to perform beyond their singularly intended effect with no counters whatsoever.

a million? Really? I'm hard on the devs and even I wouldn't say a million things are wrong

Tric Mines and Dispersal Patterns do what the description says. Even with the new Mine Doff's, they don't really even effect Tric Mines because of the long GCD.

DPB description says one crit, all crit?

The only potential exploit with trics, and this is only from what I've read, are players in the Termporal Ships using the Tippler Console to refresh their BoFF abilities, allowing them to immediately drop a second DPB Mine net. I haven't experienced this so I can't really comment on it.

why do you mention DPB as part of this exploit? Your arguing its fine in the first half of this post, but then say its an exploit if used with tippler...
Wow, you still don't seem to understand my argument. My beef is not with tricobalt mines, but with attack pattern beta. Tricobalt themselves do not need any adjustment in my opinion.

You're also wrong about mines being a all or nothing ability. Just to prove how broken attack pattern beta was when people discovered its broken crit mechanic, I threw it on an escort one night with no points in projectiles whatsoever. I then put them on auto fire and just dropped them every 30 seconds as soon as they came off cool down to show how skill-less they really are. I was popping people left and right with it, and most of the time it came as big of a surprise to me as to the person it killed. After about 5-6 matches of this and some really pissed off people ******** about me using them (including one person in my fleet), I took them off and went back to my vanilla team build.

Please quit making it sound like your putting yourself at such a huge disadvantage by spec'ing into them. If you are using DPB3, it means you're build revolves around the use of them, not that there some small additional help to your build.

Also, by your "so many people use them, so it's easily countered" argument, I guess they should have just left voldie in place too and encouraged e1 to use it in order to counter it?

Last edited by upyournacelles2; 12-02-2012 at 10:38 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 341
# 72
12-02-2012, 10:46 AM
If you're comparing DPB to Voldemort, that's just sad.

The Rare BoFF's are cheap because they're so easy to come buy. I have like 3 with DPBIII, rotting in my inventory from either old missions or Doff missions. I've already had to dismiss a few because they're taking up space and not even worth putting on the exchange.

I see people use DPB on Tric Mines who aren't specc'd or geared and they do nothing. I shield and hull tank them, in my escort, pop FAW or simply just get out of the way with no issues. You act as if they crit 100% of the time. Since I'm actually specc'd and geared for Trics, I'd be totally fine if Tric Mines didn't crit at all, it's just an added bonus when they do. Heck, I run mostly on Auxilliary power since I have no skill pts into Weapons systems or even consoles for energy weapons. The one advantage to this is, since I rely more on my Tric (torps and mines), energy drain isn't as big of an issue than most other people.

Voldie obviously needed immediate fixing and had been around a long time. It was gamebreaking.

When I'm in PvP up against mass SNB Doffs, Plasmonic Leech, 2x Aceton Assimilators, Siphon Drone spam, AMS(on both sides) and cocky, tea-bagging Jem Bugs, I deal with it, finish the match and move onto the next one. I try to learn from em, adapt and mess with different builds. I fly all kinds of ships and spec accordingly. Eventually some specs won't work anymore and I try a different one.


Back in July, Borticus even discussed the possibility of eliminating Dispersal Patterns, altogether and linking them to HYT and TS, which at rank III are only LtCmr Boff abilities. Just consider how little a player sacrifices for that when they get to keep APOIII or CRFIII if this ever happens. I'm sure by then, Cryptic will have nerfed Trics into uselessness again.

I've used other mines but never really geared for em. I've always used Trics, mostly Torps, even before HYT and TS effected them. Back when they patched it so Dispersal Patterns worked for Tric Mines, well, since Tric Consoles buff both, I didn't have to purchase more expensive gear for them. It didn't always work but I enjoyed playing different builds that were, imo, more fun and diverse than everyone optimizing for Cannons and Quantum Torpedo Spread III.

As for the Tippler Console, DPB, itself is not the exploit, but the ability to bypass the CD and deploy two in a row and since it can only be done on the Temporal ships, it might be considered an exploit. But then again, the console has what? a 3 min CD? So, again, I don't really have an opinion on that.

Last edited by doomicile; 12-02-2012 at 11:09 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 197
# 73
12-02-2012, 11:15 AM
I see...

It's tough to argue with someone who flips back and forth on the very points he's made and continuing to argue that I have a problem with tric's when I've said twice now that my issue isn't with tric's, but a broken ability that buffs tham, so ill just leave you to your aux powered FAW/scort that obviously relies on tric crits to kill people. Not sure exactly why it's so hard for you to spec for surviveability when you say you have no points into energy and you're obviously not running energy weapon damage with FAW and aux power. That setup sounds kind of like a bad joke, and if your trolling me, I have to tip a hat to you and say GG sir, you got me.

As far as your problem with jem bugs to, perhaps you ought to run a good escort build before you to bashing on them any farther. I doubt you see many bug FAW/scorts running tric mines that do much good for their team. Maybe you think there so OP because the setup your running is so underpowered?

Last edited by upyournacelles2; 12-02-2012 at 11:17 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,115
# 74
12-02-2012, 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by upyournacelles2 View Post
I see...

It's tough to argue with someone who flips back and forth on the very points he's made and continuing to argue that I have a problem with tric's when I've said twice now that my issue isn't with tric's, but a broken ability that buffs tham, so ill just leave you to your aux powered FAW/scort that obviously relies on tric crits to kill people. Not sure exactly why it's so hard for you to spec for surviveability when you say you have no points into energy and you're obviously not running energy weapon damage with FAW and aux power. That setup sounds kind of like a bad joke, and if your trolling me, I have to tip a hat to you and say GG sir, you got me.

As far as your problem with jem bugs to, perhaps you ought to run a good escort build before you to bashing on them any farther. I doubt you see many bug FAW/scorts running tric mines that do much good for their team. Maybe you think there so OP because the setup your running is so underpowered?
yeah.............

(nailed it)
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 75
12-02-2012, 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by upyournacelles2 View Post
I see...

It's tough to argue with someone who flips back and forth on the very points he's made and continuing to argue that I have a problem with tric's when I've said twice now that my issue isn't with tric's, but a broken ability that buffs tham, so ill just leave you to your aux powered FAW/scort that obviously relies on tric crits to kill people. Not sure exactly why it's so hard for you to spec for surviveability when you say you have no points into energy and you're obviously not running energy weapon damage with FAW and aux power. That setup sounds kind of like a bad joke, and if your trolling me, I have to tip a hat to you and say GG sir, you got me.

As far as your problem with jem bugs to, perhaps you ought to run a good escort build before you to bashing on them any farther. I doubt you see many bug FAW/scorts running tric mines that do much good for their team. Maybe you think there so OP because the setup your running is so underpowered?
Heh to me what was really funny was he stealth edited to remove where he called Voldy an exploit ... so not only was the whole thing derailed into are trics w/APs OP or not he had to edit out calling Voldy and exploit

Which has been my whole point and I can't believe people won't admit using knowingly using bugs which provide an advantage is exploiting, griefing, and cheating. I can believe Cryptic wants to save face for being too cheap to police it, but other players ...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 341
# 76
12-02-2012, 02:17 PM
I take it you fly a Jem Bug.

Cryptic's answer seem to make them available to everyone by putting them in reinforcement packs every so often.

They have the same hull strength as a cruiser. 4 Engie slots to stack Neutronium. 5 Tac slots to hit like a truck. The Jem set to strip shields, making cruisers glass...well just glass, let alone escorts. They have the highest turn rate of any fighter without any RCS consoles. But again, I deal with them.

I merely tried to point out the difference between a bug and an exploit pertaining to the Voldemort and in general.

You seem to come here with a vendetta in response to my post because I must have popped you in a recent match and you manage to put 2 and 2 together or you merely saw my sig, which I've had since S2.

I admit the crit is off in that they shouldn't all crit at once and I'm sure the devs will address it but I don't rely on crits and crits aren't guaranteed. I took mines, simply because they made Tric work with DPB. Just like they made Tric Trops work with HYT and TS. I don't care if you don't like my build and think it's a joke.

I'm an Engineer and at one point, tanking was viable in PvP, then Tacs whined Damage was too low. Resists were too high. So one got buffed and one got nerfed, across the board. Again, if they removed Mine crits altogether, I'll still be blowing people out of the sky. OP? No. Just a different way of playing. It's not just dropping mines whenever DPB is up and going HAHA, timing is involved just like coming up on your target within 5km with 10 different buffs on your Cannons.

I see it more as a demolitionist. Engineers are the only class that get pigeonholed into healing because they don't bring anything else to the table. Yet a Tac and Sci Cap can heal equally as well but noone rolls them for healing.

There are some who don't agree and there are some, who don't even use mines who think they're fine because they don't let themselves get hit by them. I hope the Mod will close this thread already.

Last edited by doomicile; 12-02-2012 at 02:20 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 197
# 77
12-02-2012, 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomicile View Post
I take it you fly a Jem Bug.

i own a jem but fly a galor to help my team deal with carrier spam and people like you who run tric spread spam. It's a great pressure build as well with me being able to put bleedthrough pressure on secondary targets with 8cannon dem, tractor/ewp all on aux2batt globals. Ask around and see what a team would rather have running with it. My galor or your aux powered FAW/scort one tric pony. I love my bug, but run a cruiser due to the ridiculousness cryptic has introduced to the game. My main however is a sci healer. Feel free to ask around how effective I was in either. My at handle is fallout23

Cryptic's answer seem to make them available to everyone by putting them in reinforcement packs every so often.

They have the same hull strength as a cruiser. 4 Engie slots to stack Neutronium. 5 Tac slots to hit like a truck. The Jem set to strip shields, making cruisers glass...well just glass, let alone escorts. They have the highest turn rate of any fighter without any RCS consoles. But again, I deal with them.

my point is, yeah they're good. Put top pilots that fly them like Thales, horizon, or mt in another escort, and you will cry about there damage output as well. Truth is, they live to maximize there damage potential by tweaking there builds and honing there skills more than anyone else in the game. The bug IS the best escort in the game. No argument there. What cracks me up is you bagging on it after having clearly faced opponents in it that blew you out of the water, but then you bring an auxpowered FAWscort up as a comparison...

I merely tried to point out the difference between a bug and an exploit pertaining to the Voldemort and in general.

and I merely pointed out one example that fits YOUR definition of an exploit which obviously was a sore subject with you

You seem to come here with a vendetta in response to my post because I must have popped you in a recent match and you manage to put 2 and 2 together or you merely saw my sig, which I've had since S2.

im pretty doubtful you've ever killed me with that setup sir


I admit the crit is off in that they shouldn't all crit at once and I'm sure the devs will address it but I don't rely on crits and crits aren't guaranteed. I took mines, simply because they made Tric work with DPB. Just like they made Tric Trops work with HYT and TS. I don't care if you don't like my build and think it's a joke.

i assure you it's not only me that thinks that

I'm an Engineer and at one point, tanking was viable in PvP, then Tacs whined Damage was too low. Resists were too high. So one got buffed and one got nerfed, across the board. Again, if they removed Mine crits altogether, I'll still be blowing people out of the sky. OP? No. Just a different way of playing. It's not just dropping mines whenever DPB is up and going HAHA, timing is involved just like coming up on your target within 5km with 10 different buffs on your Cannons.

while timing may get better results, it's still not necessary for beta patterned tric's to be too effective. Like I said, I ALSO blew people out of the sky leaving them on autofire and COMPLETELY unspec'd in projectiles. Thales and JamO ran me with the night I used them. Feel free to ask them how they worked. (JamO was the one that gave me **** and told me to take them back off because so many people were complaining in zone chat).

I see it more as a demolitionist. Engineers are the only class that get pigeonholed into healing because they don't bring anything else to the table. Yet a Tac and Sci Cap can heal equally as well but noone rolls them for healing.

THIS is a good point. Here's yet another idea of how engineers COULD be a more distinctive class in battle. Since they kind of are the demo type, why not give them a slight buff to mines? Even though that really doesn't have to do with this debate, it's an interesting twist to the class I had never considered

There are some who don't agree and there are some, who don't even use mines who think they're fine because they don't let themselves get hit by them. I hope the Mod will close this thread already.

the funny thing is the split of people that agree with you here, but don't agree with you in OPVP. Most the time, the two are pretty close in opinion. OPVP, at least in my timezone, is dead against patterned tric's.
Just saying....
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 78
12-02-2012, 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomicile View Post
I take it you fly a Jem Bug.

Cryptic's answer seem to make them available to everyone by putting them in reinforcement packs every so often.

They have the same hull strength as a cruiser. 4 Engie slots to stack Neutronium. 5 Tac slots to hit like a truck. The Jem set to strip shields, making cruisers glass...well just glass, let alone escorts. They have the highest turn rate of any fighter without any RCS consoles. But again, I deal with them.

I merely tried to point out the difference between a bug and an exploit pertaining to the Voldemort and in general.

You seem to come here with a vendetta in response to my post because I must have popped you in a recent match and you manage to put 2 and 2 together or you merely saw my sig, which I've had since S2.

I admit the crit is off in that they shouldn't all crit at once and I'm sure the devs will address it but I don't rely on crits and crits aren't guaranteed. I took mines, simply because they made Tric work with DPB. Just like they made Tric Trops work with HYT and TS. I don't care if you don't like my build and think it's a joke.

I'm an Engineer and at one point, tanking was viable in PvP, then Tacs whined Damage was too low. Resists were too high. So one got buffed and one got nerfed, across the board. Again, if they removed Mine crits altogether, I'll still be blowing people out of the sky. OP? No. Just a different way of playing. It's not just dropping mines whenever DPB is up and going HAHA, timing is involved just like coming up on your target within 5km with 10 different buffs on your Cannons.

I see it more as a demolitionist. Engineers are the only class that get pigeonholed into healing because they don't bring anything else to the table. Yet a Tac and Sci Cap can heal equally as well but noone rolls them for healing.

There are some who don't agree and there are some, who don't even use mines who think they're fine because they don't let themselves get hit by them. I hope the Mod will close this thread already.
Give it up already. You know bugs and exploits aren't mutually exclusive. It's why you have to edit when you wrote Voldy is an exploit. Yes there are bugs that aren't exploits and there are exploits that aren't bugs, but this doesn't exclude from some bugs being exploits. Nor does it forgive Cryptic's cheap bs policy of not policing exploited bugs.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 46
# 79
12-02-2012, 11:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
The guy is just a trolling PvEer that likes to mess with people in these forums. A less subtle Sprinkles.
Wth? I'm not trolling at all scumbag. I'm just saying there are still voldemort's out there. And I certainly the hell am not going to post a damn thing about them on the forums because it's a violation of rules.

What...are you trying to protect and deny anything regarding to bugs & exploits like so many players do to keep their advantage?

Quit ******* trolling.

Last edited by captainluke85; 12-02-2012 at 11:22 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,761
# 80
12-02-2012, 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainluke85 View Post
Wth? I'm not trolling at all scumbag. I'm just saying there are still voldemort's out there. And I certainly the hell am not going to post a damn thing about them on the forums because it's a violation of rules.

What...are you trying to protect and deny anything regarding to bugs & exploits like so many players do to keep their advantage?

Quit ******* trolling.
You don't know anything, son. If there were other exploits out there, the more knowledgeable PvPers out there would know about it.

Your whole routine on this subforum is to post garbage with the intent to incense PvPers.

As if people here don't know what you're all about.

Please try harder.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.

Last edited by snoge00f; 12-03-2012 at 05:09 PM.
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