Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 351
# 11
12-03-2012, 02:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I try not to think about it, lol.

Many games when they make a change - will do resets/respecs. That's not the case here.

At the current rate, it's 56.5k Dil per respec. A week's grinding on a single toon for the respec. How many times are things being changed, stealth nerfed/buffed, etc?

I suppose I need to go with a very bland build - instead of trying to min/max for a particular ship, etc, etc, etc. So that's my own fault.

I do not min/max that hard in my specs so I do not have to respec that often. Also as a lifetime member all my chars have a few respecs for free. So far I didn't need to bu additional ones (ok it might also help that I have so many toon and don't really play my very first anymore).

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
edit: BTW, when it was @160 - it was 10 days for a respec. Almost two weeks when it was ~200. Around 20 days when it was ~300 D/Z. I can't think of another game (though it's likely) where you'd have to spend that much time farming for a respec or break out the wallet to pay for it.
Well MMO's have come a long way. In Dark Age of Camelot there were no respecs at release. Some balance/skill changes did grant you a free one and they introduced a onetime use respec stone drop at some point. Of course this stone only droped at raid bosses. You could buy it from other players though, quite expensive.
Sometime I wonder why I enjoyed a game with so much hardship so much more than anything that exists today. Probably because it had awesome pvp.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 366
# 12
12-03-2012, 02:56 AM
Untill S7 I was playing in Patrol Escort/Sovvie (or Star Cruiser) with free stuff and PvP was playable in Ker'rat or PuG arenas (unless I met a "premade" - then it ended in fast deaths). I've put he STO aside after S7 hit to wait for the responses of the community and...

Well, I wanted to ask if it is worth to return and roll new character (which means I could get what I could get via Exchange and PvE quest rewards). It seems that it will be better if I stay away from STO for some more time. Or forever?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,705
# 13
12-03-2012, 03:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aetam1 View Post
I do not min/max that hard in my specs so I do not have to respec that often. Also as a lifetime member all my chars have a few respecs for free. So far I didn't need to bu additional ones (ok it might also help that I have so many toon and don't really play my very first anymore).
It's kind of funny, because I had forgotten about this when I decided to do the last reroll of my four guys. Mind you, it's not a ha-ha funny - one of those boot to the head funny things.

$5 per respec.

For $15, you get a respec per rank per toon.

Four toons, 2 Fed & 2 KDF:

LCdr, Cmdr, Capt, RA, VA (can't remember if it lists one for RALH/RAUH) = 5-6 respecs
Cmdr, Capt, BG/MG, LG (again, can't remember if it lists one for BG & MG) = 4-5 respecs

So that's 18-22 respecs for $15. That's $90-110 just in respecs (not counting the other things you get to keep from subscribing for a month).

With what I last read about what you keep after going from Gold to Silver - well, heck - that'd be an additional character slot on top of that - plus all the various things you keep. Subscribing for a single month is the best value STO has to offer. For a second month? Nah - but one month - insanely awesome deal.

Yeah, one of those boot to the head funny things - I should have sub'd for a month when doing that wipe 'n reroll.

I'm still tempted to do that - losing any rep progress I've made. My toons have nothing "special" on them that I wouldn't still have access to that I've bought from the C-Store or couldn't just buy on the Exchange again.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 14
12-03-2012, 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Plasma Damage
2.5% Plasma Proc
2.5% Disruptor Proc

As opposed to the mission Plasma-Disruptor Hybrids which are Disruptor Damage with the procs. The PDH have a +7.5% Accuracy and lowish damage compared to Plasma Beams with +20% Accuracy you can get.

Wish there was a way to see what's available with an unlock rather than having to unlock it. At some point, folks will have unlocked it all and posted over on STOwiki... but as it stands, it took 90 Romulan Marks, 10k EXP, 20 Industrial Energy Cells, and 20 Shield Generators to see what the Beam Arrays and Dual Beams would be.

It will take the same to see what each of them are.

And don't forget it's a 40 hour project to do each store unlock...meh.
They hybrids from the mission have lower damage on the plasma burn than they should (when compared to equivalent MK).
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 608
# 15
12-03-2012, 09:33 AM
-cut, posted in the wrong window-

Last edited by canis36; 12-03-2012 at 09:48 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,705
# 16
12-03-2012, 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redricky View Post
They hybrids from the mission have lower damage on the plasma burn than they should (when compared to equivalent MK).
The tooltips* it gives me:

Plasma-Disruptor Hybrid Beam Array (Past Imperfect)
216.5 Disruptor Dmg (173.2 DPS)
2.5% 11.4 Plasma DoT
+7.5% Accuracy
2.5% -10.8 DR

Plasma Beam Array Mk XI [ACC]x2 (Project Nightingale)
215.2 Plasma Dmg (172.2 DPS)
2.5% 23.2 Plasma DoT
+20% Accuracy
0.0% -X DR**

Romulan Plasma Beam Array Mk XI [Acc]x2 (20,540 Dil from the store after unlock)
215.2 Plasma Dmg (172.2 DPS)
2.5% 23.2 Plasma DoT
+20% Accuracy
2.5% -10.5 DR

*I still chuckle at the new Paratrinic Shield Array Mk X! (yes, it says X! instead of XI and the stats on it are garbage according to the tooltip...meh).

**There's no -DR on the beam, but I included the 0% chance for formatting reasons.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 152
# 17
12-03-2012, 10:10 AM
When I saw what Season 7 had in store in terms of the barrier of entry for new characters, I rolled up a new toon right off, got STF gear and said that'd be it for a good while; no new characters, because getting them the high-end gear is just not practical any longer. I've got seven fed toons, four klinks in various setups, but I pity the new player who wants to get into PvP seriously and desires variety of character options.
12th Fleet | Sad Pandas | Starfleet M.A.C.O.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,671
# 18
12-03-2012, 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naldoran View Post
When I saw what Season 7 had in store in terms of the barrier of entry for new characters, I rolled up a new toon right off, got STF gear and said that'd be it for a good while; no new characters, because getting them the high-end gear is just not practical any longer. I've got seven fed toons, four klinks in various setups, but I pity the new player who wants to get into PvP seriously and desires variety of character options.
Ya know to be honest its not that big a deal... don't get me wrong if you really must have mk xii sets of maco or omega its kinda of a pain.

Really though since the borg set has gotten its rightful smack down. I have been running mostly setups that really don't use much stf gear.

Aegis is easily obtainable buy anyone... fleet shields and even engines if you are part of a fleet that has unlocked them.

My escorts have been running 2 aegis with maco shielding and thats sweet... but really the fleet resistant shield would work just as well... even a good MK XII resist shield would be 95% as good as well. I could have a new toon into that setup pretty easy and ya it would preform just fine in PvP.

To be honesty all the terrible new players I see in pvp would do better to dump there STF gear get a proper hyper impulse engine and a defelector that in fact boosted the stuff they where using... and put a proper shield on instead of a omega/borg that they can't keep hard enough or a KHG they can't refill. The maco shield is about the only STF shield that is stupid proof. lol
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 609
# 19
12-03-2012, 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
It might be time to start looking for ways to work "around" the system they've put in place-find ways to use the sets that are NOT gated by the timegated repgrind.

iirc that'd be:

Jem'hadar set

Breen Set

Aegis Set

The days of easy upgrades to top-shelf gear are gone, what we're left with, is the choice of grinding endlessly on the treadmill for PWE's amusement, or figuring out how to make our own fun with the scraps they've overlooked.

Alternately, maybe someone's got some data on Fleetstore gear-there's a grind there, too, but at least you're doing it in concert with the people you're likely to be teaming with in PvP...
Not to worry, they are redoing the crafting system into a rep system, so rest assured Aegis will be part of the time gated content.

| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,705
# 20
12-06-2012, 06:00 AM
I do not understand some of the thought behind some of it (okay, I do not understand the thought behind a lot of it, but this sticks out like a sore thumb)...

Consider the new player, alt, or reroll.

Mk X Assimilated Deflector
450 Omega Marks
14,000 Dilithium
10,000 Expertise
30 Communication Arrays

Mk XI Assimilated Deflector
675 Omega Marks
18,000 Dilithium
32,000 Expertise
50 Communication Arrays
25 Industrial Energy Cells

Mk XII Assimilated Deflector
? Omega Marks
? Dilithium
? Expertise
? Communication Arrays
? Industrial Energy Cells
? Something else?

Mk X = T1, Mk XI = T3, Mk XII = T5

It makes no sense in the least to buy Mk X. Getting to T3 just doesn't take long enough to justify it (and you're going to be working on the Omega Marks and Dilithium as you get to T3 to buy the set (2025 Omega Marks & 54000 Dilithium). That's not counting any other items that you're looking to buy as well, consoles and weapons (weapons provide a similar issue).

Which starts to beg the question, is it even worth it to make those purchases at T3 or just to wait until you hit T5? Yes, T3->T5 is much longer than T1->T3 (32,500->100,000 vs 15,000->32,500)... but if you're looking at multiple toons...

I don't know, it's just kind of mind boggling that somebody would grind that much Dil or Omega Marks for something they know they're going to trash later. Perhaps if they could upgrade the Mk X to Mk XI to Mk XII... it would be different.

As it stands, though - for that new player, reroll, or alt - that's a very long road. They're choices are:

"Waste" time/money for the lesser sets to have somewhat equivalent gear.
Play without somewhat equivalent gear, trying to find some enjoyment in that.
Wait until they reach T5.
Forget about PvP.

This isn't an issue that's faced on the PvE side. Maybe you'd get laughed out of an ESTF... but there's always the regular STFs. There's no such separation on the PvP side.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
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