Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,262
# 31
12-03-2012, 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thishorizon View Post
i just see this thing as a big slightly underpowered escort.
I've wondered that - in the builds I've seen here and there. Not you personally, mind you - but that thought process - the way it's viewed.

The folks trying to build a Sciscort... and then the folks trying to build a more Tac-like RSV instead.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 919
# 32
12-03-2012, 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stealthrider View Post
Tac Captain

Fore: 3x Aux DHC
Aft: 1x transphasic mines, transphasic cluster torp, 1 beam array

Shield: MACO Mk XI
Deflector/Engines: Borg Mk XI

CMDR Sci: VM 3, VM 1, TSS 2, TSS 1
LtCom Uni (Tac): CRF 2, CRF 1, TT1
Lt Tac: DPB 1, TT 1
Lt Eng: RSP 1, EPtS 1
Ens Uni (Sci): HE 1

Doffs: 2x VM extend, 2x EP recharge, 1x something else, maybe BFI Doff, or 2 BFI + 1 VM doff

Consoles: (Eng) 1x Neutronium 1x RCS, (Sci) 3x Vesta consoles, Borg, Field Generator Mk XI (Tac) 3x Phaser Relay Mk XI

Hangar: Advanced Danube Runabouts
You're not really going to get sustained damage from a single transphasic torpedo as you mentioned. If you're running 1 torpedo, it's more for spike damage, in which case transphasic is not a very good choice. Overall, I wouldn't run a front torp on a Vesta unless you're going full on torp boat.

The aux DHC's present an interesting dilemma. It means your front energy weapons require high aux power and your rear energy weapons require high weapons power. This is why I removed the turrets from the rear and put 2 mines and the cluster torp back there. This way you can use minimal weapons power setting. You could also keep the cutting beam and just run 1 mine, but I'm not very familiar with the cutting beam, how effective it is, or if it even runs off of weapons power. [edit] Saw Horizon's post and I forgot about the subsystem targeting, so yeah, I'd stick a rear beam array on there with 1 mine and 1 cluster torp [/edit]

Your build also seemed to lack a bit of team healing, so I added an extra TSS in place of the tractor beam. If you were running grav well, tykens or ewp a tractor would be a better fit, but with viral matrix I think it's better to go for another heal that can be used on yourself or a team mate.

Speaking of viral matrix, I added a VM 1 to your build and another doff. I had to remove PH3 for this, which means you're now more susceptible to tractors and direct hull damage, but you will be helping your team out more by disabling twice as many ships. It's a tough call on whether or not to use PH, but using it in such a high boff slot is probably not a great idea. If you were spec'ed into attack patterns I'd say maybe throw an APO in place of CRF2, which will give you better tractor resistance than PH, good defense and an offensive boost as well speed/turn boost.

I removed scatter volley and torp high yield and replaced them with an additional CRF so that you can cycle CRF1&2 and dispersal pattern beta for the mines. The mines should be decently effective at clearing up spam which is what you said you were using the scatter volley for, as well as providing a much bigger punch to player targets. Combo a trans. mine DPB1 with the transphasic cluster torp and you can do some decent damage even if their shields are up.

You had two copies of EPtS powers and you were using two EPtX doffs, which is either a waste of doff slots or a waste of an EPtS power. So I kept the doffs and removed EPtS2 in favor of RSP1. This should give you more survivability. If you think you can hang without RSP then maybe put in an Aux2SIF, which would give you another hull heal and it will also add a hull damage resistance that will take the place of your missing PH. Up to you whether or not you think you can survive without RSP, but generally speaking it's better to keep your shields up than having to heal your hull and still have your shields down.

I highlighted the 3 vesta consoles in yellow because I simply don't know enough about them, but as a general rule I've found that using too many P2W consoles can be a detriment. I'm not sure what I'd add in there or which ones I'd remove, but another field generator or 2 wouldn't hurt. Also the borg console should be more effective with the mines and cluster torp than with the turrets.

Disclaimer: I don't own a Vesta and am fairly new to PvP, however I do have a decent understanding of the basics. These are my thoughts based on my limited experience, so take them for what you will.
----
@DevolvedOne

Last edited by skurf; 12-03-2012 at 04:57 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,064
# 33
12-03-2012, 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stealthrider View Post
My build follows. It's not great at surviving, and relies on the Console abilities for escaping sticky situations, but it does a hell of a job at locking down and sustaining damage on a single target, and since in a Vesta I usually am not the primary target I often have free range to do just that.


Tac Captain

Fore: 2x Aux DHC, 1x Transphasic Mk XII torpedo
Aft: 2x Phaser Turret Mk XII, 1x Kinetic Cutting Beam

Shield: MACO Mk XI
Deflector/Engines: Borg Mk XI

CMDR Sci: VM 3, PH 3, HE 2, TSS 1
LtCom Uni (Tac): CRF 2, HYT2, TT1
Lt Tac: CSV 1, TT 1
Lt Eng: EPtS 2, EPtS 1
Ens Uni (Sci): TB 1

Doffs: 1x VM extend, 2x EP recharge, 2x Torp recharge (likely to change when i get a better selection of available doffs)

Consoles: (Eng) 2x Neutronium, (Sci) 3x Vesta consoles, Borg, Field Generator Mk XI (Tac) 3x Phaser Relay Mk XI

Hangar: Advanced Danube Runabouts


Works simply enough. CSV when clearing pets, mines and such is necessary but otherwise get them in TB, hit 'em with VM and pop CRF2 and HYT2 and go to town. The burst damage of the two DHCs isn't *huge* but it packs a punch, and the sustained damage from the transphasic torps, the cutting beam and the Quantum Field Focus Phaser when its up is usually more than softer ships can handle. This isn't a full escort though, of course, so its best when played as supporting damage.
dude, im gonna give you some feedback, right now:

why would you not run at least 1 beam array and rotate the innate sub system targeting. i mean....?

tric mines are for ze lulz in STF's only maybe. i just can't fathom how they are a good choice on any ship. unless you are in favor of the broken-ish dispersal pattern beta....which it seems, you may be.

really, danubes....really? i wouldn't slot a pet on this thing if you gave me a hundred bucks. its not a damn carrier. and, well, i guess if you are in favor of more junk clogging up the screen. (IE... good escort pilots ignore tractors through omegas, and if you are pugging it, and tractoring a cruiser without a kill cycle coming....welll...he just isnt going to care all that much at all)

your quote: "It's not great at surviving, and relies on the Console abilities for escaping sticky situations"....well, where to start. staying alive is rule #1. and as a sci ship, you should be able to keep yourself and someone else alive. as your first priority. i can do this in my tac/vesta. its not easy by any means. you need to focus on agility, and aux heals..... not some gimmicky console. which leads me to.....

POLARIZE HULL 3. were they giving this away at a party i wasnt invited to or something? you are slotting a horribly selfish hull harden in a ltcm spot. really dude? how about a nice science team 3, or tss3. for yourself and someone else. shields man!

also, you have trouble surviving, run danubes, and still run a tractor beam1 in there. why not another tss, or he. that way you have one every 30 seconds......to.....maybe.....keep you alive?

also, the a transphasic torp build is only solid when you throw a ton of them. i mean a ton. 3 trans up front with a couple doffs to kick up the pace. unless you do that, you prolly just want to slot a quantum. they are quick on your target, and hit the hardest when they hit hull.......

which is what you should be doing, in a tac vesta.... with that frickin def dish beam. sweet zombie jesus the dps you can get out of that thing.

sorry if i was a little....well, blunt. but your ship seems to do a little bit of everything not very well. and you can't stay alive. its all there in your post. pick 1 thing and do it well every time your alpha sequence is up. a 2-3 power combo aimed at killing. with a sci silly in there....your VM3 works very well for that. the rest of the time, just heal other people, and keep yourself alive.... so you can actually run the alpha.

have fun kill bad guys
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 373
# 34
12-03-2012, 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyprodimus View Post
My bad the build is different, and I apologize. I was being a PvP elitist douche. I shouldnt say anything unless its constructive. Its just that when you post every detail of your ship aesthetic, colour coded all equipment and listed your spec, plus your reputation with the other threads, I assumed it was the same. But clearly you stated "this morning".

Skurf nailed it. Your build isnt focused. Nothing is optimized. You have DDB but no BO? If you want subsystem targeting put a single BA at the back, your turn is sufficient and the arc reaches past your side. If you have multiple BA at the back, are you trying to beam boat like a cruiser? Play to the Vesta's strengths. Its got decent turn and can equip DHC. Then use turrets and CRF.

You have a single siphon? That could be better spent as a heal or CC.

You have too many P2W consoles. I dont think you need sub jump, your turn rate is good enough. Grav pulse is just rude and will make people pull out their siphons and theta.
You have no damage boosting consoles and you have no field generators. I dont have the new borg set, but as it it, you are using 2 particle generators, one assimilated console and a weapon slot just for the combo. You are giving up so much.

You could try
Ablative (RCS if you still cant turn), Neutronium
Field Gen x 2, QFF, Emitter Array
Phaser x 4


If you want advice on weapons, go with Accuracy mods.
well I took some of the advice by replacing the Particle Generators with a Sensor Probes and a Graviton Generator... which help with my Viral Matrix, Graviton Pulse Generator, and Tractor beam... I have considered dropping the Grav Pulse Generator for a Phaser Console... and I have considered dropping the assimilated console and cutting beam.... just not sure what to do there.... so Im all suggestions but the changes I have made have been positive ones
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,064
# 35
12-03-2012, 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I've wondered that - in the builds I've seen here and there. Not you personally, mind you - but that thought process - the way it's viewed.

The folks trying to build a Sciscort... and then the folks trying to build a more Tac-like RSV instead.
running this ship as a sci scort is what i am doing now. i have my bug, and beloved defiant for my tac toon, its so hard to give up on that damage potential.

even slotting the ltcm uni as a tac boff, still leaves you tons of room to be a great sci healer and CC to boot.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,262
# 36
12-03-2012, 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thishorizon View Post
running this ship as a sci scort is what i am doing now. i have my bug, and beloved defiant for my tac toon, its so hard to give up on that damage potential.

even slotting the ltcm uni as a tac boff, still leaves you tons of room to be a great sci healer and CC to boot.
Wasn't saying it was wrong - it just kind of made sense why some folks were trying builds but finding X, Y, & Z to complain about while others were happy about A, B, & C... just that sort of thing.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 37
12-03-2012, 09:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skurf View Post
Couple questions: Why are you running a dual beam bank if you're not running beam overload? Considering you have a CRF wouldn't another DHC be more effective (even without CRF it would be more effective than a DBB without overload). Same point with your rear beam arrays...with CRF wouldn't it be better to use turrets?

Also, why are you using 2 particle gen consoles since you're not using any science powers that have particle damage? Is that what boosts the kinetic beam cutter? If so, is it not a waste to use up 2 console slots on a weapon that doesn't have that much damage output?

Overall, it seems to lack focus and it doesn't seem like the most efficient build. Of course, I'm a noob and am probably wrong.
well i would not put turrents in the back, i would use beams in the back for target systems 1. since the vesta dhc are aux based i hardly doubt turrents would be the better choice. i could be wrong. but i still think its better to make use of the free target that comes with the ship.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 38
12-03-2012, 09:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thishorizon View Post
i still do not understand using these aux cannons. using batteries, red matter capacitor, and that shields/aux +30 console thingie.... can't you just rotate those around? spec into weapons power a bit (even though its expensive) to me, this seems like the way to go....idunno, my sci builds are a little lack-luster lately.

nor do i understand NOT using the innate sub system targeting on sci ships....i did real that up there didnt I? i mean, hell, 1 rear array gets that done just fine. why not run it....?

i just see this thing as a big slightly underpowered escort. well, the tac version anyway...and why you would run any of the other versions is way beyond me. this game is so damn defensive as it is.

ah well, maybe i'll get back in mine for a bit.... do some testing again.

have fun kill bad guys
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...d=vestabuild_0
this was the advice i gave. i assume the phaser lance is particle gen? but i still think 3 beams in the back is better just for proc and what ever target 1 gives. also i did line up or thought i did that pahser lance crap with psw. and since its a maco ship build decomp is good with vm and 3 pt maco with a longer psw disable. yeah yeah the damage blows but its defence/offencive as well as killing extends.

side note tss3 seems hard to find so i did sci team 3. but i would do tss3 sci team 2

Last edited by broken1981; 12-03-2012 at 09:51 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 42
# 39
12-03-2012, 10:04 PM
I run one of 2 different builds all depending on what the team needs. This is the Support healer and debuffer.

Fore Weapons: 3 Aux Dual heavy Cannons
Aft Weapons: 2 MKXII Phaser Beam arrays, Breen Transphasic Cluster Torp.

Deflector: Borg
Engine: Borg
Shield: Maco

Sci Cmdr: VM3, TSS3, HE2, Tractor1
Lt. Cmdr (Sci): ST3, TSS2, HE1
LT Eng: ES1, EPtS1
Ens Eng: EPtS1
LT Tact: SV1, TT1

Doffs: 3 System Engineer Doffs (Chance to spread VM to others), 2 Develpoment Lab Sci

Consoles:

Eng: Fermion Trans. Theta Radiation, Mk XI Neutrionium
Sci: 3x Mk XI Shield Emitters, 1x Particle Gen
Tact: Assimilated console, Team fortress, 1x MkXI Phaser Relay


Secondary Set-up (CC, Debuffer)

Weapons and Equipment Same

Sci Cmdr: VM3, FBP2, TSS2, HE1
Ens Sci: Tractor1 (or ST1 depending on teammates)
Lt Cmdr Eng: EWP1, ES1, EPtS1
Lt Eng: Aux2Sif1, EPtS1
Lt Tact: SV1, TT1

Consoles:

Eng: Theta Radiation, Neutrionium
Sci: 5x Particle Gen
Tact: Assimilated Console, Fermion Console, Phaser Relay

Doffs: EWP Doff, 3 System Engineers (VM spread), Sensor Officer



Both builds work well for me and the team usually. But I'm always open for improvements.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,064
# 40
12-03-2012, 10:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heegoo419 View Post
I run one of 2 different builds all depending on what the team needs. This is the Support healer and debuffer.

Fore Weapons: 3 Aux Dual heavy Cannons
Aft Weapons: 2 MKXII Phaser Beam arrays, Breen Transphasic Cluster Torp.

Deflector: Borg
Engine: Borg
Shield: Maco

Sci Cmdr: VM3, TSS3, HE2, Tractor1
Lt. Cmdr (Sci): ST3, TSS2, HE1
LT Eng: ES1, EPtS1
Ens Eng: EPtS1
LT Tact: SV1, TT1

Doffs: 3 System Engineer Doffs (Chance to spread VM to others), 2 Develpoment Lab Sci

Consoles:

Eng: Fermion Trans. Theta Radiation, Mk XI Neutrionium
Sci: 3x Mk XI Shield Emitters, 1x Particle Gen
Tact: Assimilated console, Team fortress, 1x MkXI Phaser Relay


Secondary Set-up (CC, Debuffer)

Weapons and Equipment Same

Sci Cmdr: VM3, FBP2, TSS2, HE1
Ens Sci: Tractor1 (or ST1 depending on teammates)
Lt Cmdr Eng: EWP1, ES1, EPtS1
Lt Eng: Aux2Sif1, EPtS1
Lt Tact: SV1, TT1

Consoles:

Eng: Theta Radiation, Neutrionium
Sci: 5x Particle Gen
Tact: Assimilated Console, Fermion Console, Phaser Relay

Doffs: EWP Doff, 3 System Engineers (VM spread), Sensor Officer



Both builds work well for me and the team usually. But I'm always open for improvements.
again, on a ship like this, with this boff layout, and weak hull, you are running in my opinion way too many crazy consoles.

please understand: 1 joke ability every 3 minutes that lasts 10 seconds is NOT a good way to max your build in PVP.

think of the constant defense you could have with another neutronium instead of that theta. or the turnrate you could get to max your def dish hax (which you arent even using) by sloting a RCS for turnrate.

or even 5 shield cap consoles. staying alive = you do more of everything.

your tss's and he's are constantly nerfed by you running the aux cannons.

and you may as well slot nothing instead of that breen cluster torp. you'd get the same results, but you just wouldnt see those mines pop out once they hit the target, and immediately get eaten up by AOE and TCD and pet spam.
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