Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,753
# 11
12-04-2012, 12:53 AM
I really dont see the problem, other than it steals the design from the dark night rises.

Half the franchise has has some evil force or megalomaniac trying to blow something up, or cause destruction or seek revenge. khan in II, the whale probe in VI, Soron in generations, the borg in first contact, shinzon in nemsis, nero in XI.

There are tons of evil creatures in every single series. we had an entire series in ds9 that was very focused on war and conflict. the crews family have been killed at times, crew members have suffered senseless deaths. planets have been destroyed, no one seems to mind all that, because that was old trek and that could do no wrong now?

i swear that its just people have taken a disliking to JJ. If this poster was being made under the former writers, and showed the borg standing over an assimilated earth, or the doomsday device hovering over a destroyed planet, everyone would be geeking out like there is no tomorrow. people seem to just want to hate on it now because its JJ. evident that some have concluded the film will suck based on a single picture, because it's not all roses and sunshine?

would you conclude ds9 sucked based on the damage done to starfleet academy by the breen, or tng by the battle at wolf 359? its a teaser to set up the conflict, the threat that must be stopped, like they have stopped a hundreds times before in every series.

there is this notion that star trek is about hope for the future. no, only the federation is about hope for the future. the rests of the galaxy is more often than not trying to destroy them. all those red shirts did not die in accidents.

House of Cards - Lvl 46 Fed mission
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 125
# 12
12-04-2012, 12:59 AM
The Red-shirt Guy who stepped on that 'esplodin' rock did.

just sayin'
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,652
# 13
12-04-2012, 12:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainrevo1 View Post
i swear that its just people have taken a disliking to JJ.
That about sums up a few of the opinions I've seen on the ones who hated this film

They hate him simply because he did something different, that he 'changed' Star Trek despite the fact the original is still intact, and that the alternate universe doesn't follow the old Trek despite all logic saying it SHOULDN'T...

I could go on, but that seems like people's feelings speaking over their better judgement, most of the time. I personally understood it wouldn't be like the old Trek, and liked it on it's own merits, not in comparsion to the old Trek.
Was named Trek17, but still an author.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,294
# 14
12-04-2012, 01:55 AM
What is it with movies and their obsession with 'Dark and Gritty' these days?

STAR TREK BATTLES - HIGH DPS PLAYERS NEED NOT APPY
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 609
# 15
12-04-2012, 01:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trek21 View Post
They hate him simply because he did something different, that he 'changed' Star Trek despite the fact the original is still intact, and that the alternate universe doesn't follow the old Trek despite all logic saying it SHOULDN'T...
No they don't just hate him because he changed Star Trek. But because he led Star Trek to a very different path und changed Star Trek INDEFINETLY.

It would be naive to think that the JJ movies don't have a lasting effect on the 'original' universe. The last Star Trek movie was a shiny, full-of-action, over the top teen movie that made a lot of people go to the cinema who never watched Star Trek before. It's only logical to expect the next JJ movie and a potential new series to be of the very same kind.

Most of what I liked about Star Trek in the past won't translate into a new movie or a new series. For me Star Trek is about social criticism, interesting technical and environmental phenomenons and the peaceful overcome of obsticles (despite the Dominon war). Nothing of this could be found in the last movie.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,145
# 16
12-04-2012, 02:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by khayuung View Post
This is what Star Trek will be from now on. Its the same reason why this game is also like this, seeking out new civilizations... to blast them apart. Granted we haven't seen anything really new in STO and have been blasting away old enemies and friends alike.

Is it because of Cryptic/PWE's fault? Yes, their storywriters seem to have some limits in their scope.

But is it solely their fault? No, because there are many more players who lap up this kind of stuff. For every person that swears never to touch a lockbox, there are several more paying hundreds to get ahead in this game. Just as there are many more people who have never seen Star Trek before who are loving the Abramsverse, and/or STO. Or worse still, people who just never got the ol Star Trek, but totally dig Abrams' vision.

Gene was no saint, but he created something special that all of us saw. Back then our numbers were few, and even now that remains so. The Star Trek fanbase had just gained a lot of STO/Abrams fans.

Perhaps, that is our fate, as true Star Trek connoiseurs, to be forever drowned by the masses, even within our very own starships.

We should welcome this change, for it keeps our dear series alive. Because that is what we as Starfleet Officers and Honorable Warriors all stand for, welcoming and asking for a good fight.

But as long as we remember, as long as one more remastered BD ends up on a child's desk and opens his or her eyes to this promise of our future, Gene's and Rick's Star Trek will never perish!!




Iori: Ah... There you go again. :/
Hachi: Who asked for a grand speech. ._.
Pion: But... that was, kinda cool!
Frisha: Noisy.
Kha: ...
As much as it saddens me I have to agree with every word you wrote, nicely put.

FLTCDR SRS FLEETS - S.R.S. - S.R.S. ACADEMY - SRS GUARDIANS - SRS KDF
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,145
# 17
12-04-2012, 02:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainrevo1 View Post
I really dont see the problem, other than it steals the design from the dark night rises.

Half the franchise has has some evil force or megalomaniac trying to blow something up, or cause destruction or seek revenge. khan in II, the whale probe in VI, Soron in generations, the borg in first contact, shinzon in nemsis, nero in XI.

There are tons of evil creatures in every single series. we had an entire series in ds9 that was very focused on war and conflict. the crews family have been killed at times, crew members have suffered senseless deaths. planets have been destroyed, no one seems to mind all that, because that was old trek and that could do no wrong now?

i swear that its just people have taken a disliking to JJ. If this poster was being made under the former writers, and showed the borg standing over an assimilated earth, or the doomsday device hovering over a destroyed planet, everyone would be geeking out like there is no tomorrow. people seem to just want to hate on it now because its JJ. evident that some have concluded the film will suck based on a single picture, because it's not all roses and sunshine?

would you conclude ds9 sucked based on the damage done to starfleet academy by the breen, or tng by the battle at wolf 359? its a teaser to set up the conflict, the threat that must be stopped, like they have stopped a hundreds times before in every series.

there is this notion that star trek is about hope for the future. no, only the federation is about hope for the future. the rests of the galaxy is more often than not trying to destroy them. all those red shirts did not die in accidents.
You may be right Revo, but my guess if one of your brilliant foundry missions was being made into a film you would not have chosen a picture of a derelict wasteland and a flasher in a Mac standing on top of a pile of rubble to portray it. Where are the starships? Where are the uniforms and where is the hope in that picture. I think this is going to be a typical JJ movie and whilst it will be entertaining no doubt it will not be anything to do with our Star Trek. for me Star Trek movies ended with Nemesis.

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Last edited by mattjohnsonva; 12-04-2012 at 02:09 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 144
# 18
12-04-2012, 02:23 AM
Speaking for my part, I don't hate JJ, and I'm okay with him changing things. It'd be more accurate to say I'm half-in, hold-out on the most recent film:

The good:
Liked the characters and their respective actors. They weren't much more than sketches, but those sketched were well executed and fun for what they were IMO (well... Karl Urban kinda felt like he was doing a joke impression more than an actual performance, but still)

Liked the production design for the most part, highlights for me being the Kelvin, starbase/spacedock, and the shuttles. My god, the Kelvin was awesome.

Pacing was very good. Action was good too. Don't mind at all that it was more action oriented.

Loved that they had the balls to blow up Vulcan. The movies in the past have mostly tended to be very reset-button heavy, more so than the TV series actually, which is strange since with most TV shows that get movies, the movies are seen as where you REALLY get your epic on and break out with the game changing stuff. Not since the original 1701 got blown up in ST-III has the been anything like that (I kinda don't count Kirk's death, as he was already out to pasture both in universe and franchise-wise anyway)

"I've got your gun": this is a small thing, but I'm really really glad the dialog in this film actually felt natural. Trek, especially the later series, was really bad at natural dialog. The use of "gun" instead of "phaser" or "phase pistol", or some other awkward and unnaturally overspecific term in circumstances where a real person would just use the simple/general term is a prime example.

Somewhat related to the above: "Hi, Christopher. I'm Nero.". I LOLed. It was humorously unexpected, and said a lot about the difference between the two characters.

The bad:
Nothing in the writing makes any sense. Underneath the shinies the whole thing is really is a mess held together with chewing gum and twine. Didn't notice on the first viewing so much, cause the pacing and such was good enough to keep me having fun anyway, but it became really glaring on repeat views, and has kinda ruined a lot of the movie for me. If I had one "this must improve in the next one or I'm gone" issue, this would be it. It's just appallingly badly written, and there's no excusing that.

Some of Kirk's enthusiasm at the shooty stuff felt wrong. It makes sense for the sort of person the movie paints him to be in this timeline, but I think this is what people are really keying off of when they say the movie felt un-Trek in it's attitude. We'll have to see if this gets more development, or if it actually was supposed to be representative of the flim's/filmmaker's/intended audience's attitude.

The Enterprise design itself: I can see where they were trying to go with this, but the parts just don't mesh. Too many bits out of scale with each other, too many bits blatantly borrowed wholesale from the Refit and others. Supposedly those weren't part of the initial design and were shoehorned in late at the request of JJ or a producer. Should've left well enough alone and stuck with the initial concept. Also: giant physical spinning fan blades in the bussard collectors? Really?

The engineering decks of both the Kelvin and the Enterprise utterly fail to look like anything other than the brewery they were filmed in. They don't in the slightest look like they're on a ship, they look like they're in a building, on the ground. It's utterly jarring in it's unconvincingness. Seriously, Starlost gets ruthlessly mocked for this exact smeg, but Star Trek gets a pass? And they don't look like high energy hardware, they look like chem hardware (cause they are: it's a brewery). I'm totally cool with them wanting to make these locations look more klugey and industrial, but, well, look at pictures of CERN, or hydroelectric plants, or nuke plants. Chem industrial and energy industrial look very, VERY different. Did like the corridors and bridge sets, though ('cept for the supermarket scanners. What's up with those?)

Terrible plot-relevant basic science issues that go beyond nerd nitpicking and into "these people should have their high-school diploma rescinded" territory. Basically like the very very worst eps of Voyager or Enterprise in this regard. Worse than brainless.

Single most glaring product placement EVER by virtue of having zero logic for the setting. I very very very strongly doubt that Nokia will still be a company in 300 years, and if it is, neither it nor it's products will be recognizable. The car I can believe as a private collector piece, but a (now outdated) modern smart phone? STILL IN USE? 300 YEARS FROM NOW?

#%^%@! shaky cam.

&*^%$#! lens flairs.

So yeah, half-in, half out. It's basically a Michael Bay movie with better editing, less flag worship, and more likable characters. Fun, but totally vapid. I don't have much experience with JJ (haven't seen any of his other shows/movies), so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I hope he was just setting the hook with the first one, and has been taking the opportunity to put more thought into the second one's writing.

Last edited by connectamabob; 12-04-2012 at 02:41 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 144
# 19
12-04-2012, 02:26 AM
Also, that's definitely the London skyline in the poster. I'd have to hear from an a UK dweller here to know if it's the modern skyline (time travel...again?), or a hypothetical future skyline, but I recognize some of the buildings.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 20
12-04-2012, 02:55 AM
Its not the modern london skyline (and if he trys ANY more time travel the Universe is going to implode)
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