Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,111
# 41
12-03-2012, 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Wasn't saying it was wrong - it just kind of made sense why some folks were trying builds but finding X, Y, & Z to complain about while others were happy about A, B, & C... just that sort of thing.
i understand man, no worries.

have fun kill bad guys!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 42
12-03-2012, 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thishorizon View Post



your tss's and he's are constantly nerfed by you running the aux cannons.

.
capt i mostly agree on what you say, but this??? its not even a hard nerf.or even a heal nerf. my fleet mate has tested it and he never drops below 100 aux. capt i think you really need to try the aux dhc. ide love too myself. but boost the turn or add another armor console is a joke. so many people think you need to run more then 1 armor console and this just is not true. i run only 1. to have a 35% resist across the bord? i get like 28.3% i believe. and thats just 1 armor console. and how many people do you know that go sci scourt? its just about the same thing. except way more heals. i am along the lines of thought as too many console. but people swar by these things and i doubt they are doing harm to thier builds running vesta consoles. i think it comes down to most of us hate p2w consoles so we shutter at gp or even theta.

on my carrier im at 115 aux got over 20k heal with he 2. and ide much rather have a veta with semi heals and 3 mk12 accx2 aux powered dhc then a carrier that says im a healer pop me. his debuff with semi heals is way better then people that put sci in jems. he has sencor anni, sencor scan, sub nuke, vm, tss3. he i mean wtf. damage and healing? it dont get better then that in team.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 42
# 43
12-03-2012, 11:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thishorizon View Post
again, on a ship like this, with this boff layout, and weak hull, you are running in my opinion way too many crazy consoles.

please understand: 1 joke ability every 3 minutes that lasts 10 seconds is NOT a good way to max your build in PVP.

think of the constant defense you could have with another neutronium instead of that theta. or the turnrate you could get to max your def dish hax (which you arent even using) by sloting a RCS for turnrate.

or even 5 shield cap consoles. staying alive = you do more of everything.

your tss's and he's are constantly nerfed by you running the aux cannons.

and you may as well slot nothing instead of that breen cluster torp. you'd get the same results, but you just wouldnt see those mines pop out once they hit the target, and immediately get eaten up by AOE and TCD and pet spam.

i understand where you are coming from with the "crazy consoles" logic. I agree that the Theta console is more of a "gimick" or "luxury" console but I have found that minus escorts running APO its a nice thing to trap the enemy and get them to stop moving. In the least it gets them to use a HE to clear it out.

The other consoles i do grant you have a somewhat long cooldown compared to the benefit you receive from them, but this is the way i look at it: if i did not have the team fortress console (for example) i would have another phaser relay which yes would increase my dps, but thats not what i'm there to really do. the team fortress console and the fermion console i use as "in between cooldown" heals. If i am unable to send out any heals for my team atleast i can use those consoles, and by the time i need them again they are usually off cooldown.

I see what your saying about these new Aux powered DHC's, that they are causing a nerf for my healing. I have noticed that when im running the SV1 with those cannons my AUX never drops below 105-100 aux (when running at full aux). And to be honest this is easily solved by just not hitting the spacebar right before you send out your heals.

I know that the Breen cluster torp seems to be a stupid choice, but it seems to work for me. i used to run the tric mines but i never had any real luck with them doing any significant damage, if they ever even hit. and i feel as though running 3 beams in the back would be somewhat of a waste as well with minimal weapons power. And so far with the breen torp i've seen some pretty good bleed-through damage come out of it, and i have had much better luck with it hitting my target than the tric mines.

Please dont get me wrong on this post, i was just trying to show my reasoning as to why i put this build together the way i did. I respect your opinions and as i pvp more and more in different situations i will probably end up changing a few or more things.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,111
# 44
12-04-2012, 04:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken1981 View Post
capt i mostly agree on what you say, but this??? its not even a hard nerf.or even a heal nerf. my fleet mate has tested it and he never drops below 100 aux. capt i think you really need to try the aux dhc. ide love too myself. but boost the turn or add another armor console is a joke. so many people think you need to run more then 1 armor console and this just is not true. i run only 1. to have a 35% resist across the bord? i get like 28.3% i believe. and thats just 1 armor console. and how many people do you know that go sci scourt? its just about the same thing. except way more heals. i am along the lines of thought as too many console. but people swar by these things and i doubt they are doing harm to thier builds running vesta consoles. i think it comes down to most of us hate p2w consoles so we shutter at gp or even theta.

on my carrier im at 115 aux got over 20k heal with he 2. and ide much rather have a veta with semi heals and 3 mk12 accx2 aux powered dhc then a carrier that says im a healer pop me. his debuff with semi heals is way better then people that put sci in jems. he has sencor anni, sencor scan, sub nuke, vm, tss3. he i mean wtf. damage and healing? it dont get better then that in team.
here i am confused again. maybe i do need more testing on the aux level impacts.

but for me, even with 1 of those things, if i go from 125 aux to 100 aux, thats a 10% self nerf to my healing numbers and reduction in effectiveness of sci goodies when i pop them during that downside. this is what i steer from.... ANYTHING that reduces my maximizing anything i run. hell, i see it as the 10% sometimes that gives you the edge.

so what then, you only have 2 fore weapons drawing on what kind of weapons energy power? are you speccing into weapons power levels? if you are not, you may hover around 114 or so. thats not 125. and a self nerf to your other fore weapons damage. 10% maybe?

also, the turnrate is to boost anything with a 45 degree arc. again, maxing my weapons choice....more time facing on target = more damage. and for armor, i always run 2. its the sweetspot. 3 too much maybe, but when i can run 2, im sitting over 45, and clos to 50 when my omegas and deltas are popping. 50 is more than 35, and about the same 10% as mentioned above.

i'm not trying to knock em man, i just try to give people on advice on how to max what they may want to run. based on how the game mechanics have worked so far, right there we just found some maxing. be it 10% here and there, but i'd rather have that than not.

have fun kill bad guys

Last edited by thishorizon; 12-04-2012 at 04:17 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 359
# 45
12-04-2012, 04:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thishorizon View Post
i still do not understand using these aux cannons. using batteries, red matter capacitor, and that shields/aux +30 console thingie.... can't you just rotate those around? spec into weapons power a bit (even though its expensive) to me, this seems like the way to go....idunno, my sci builds are a little lack-luster lately.

Well the aux cannons do have some advantages:
1. They are free MK XII Phaser DHC'c with [acc]x2. Thats not so bad.
2. You just run full aux, no reason to switch power lvls unless you really need shield/engines at the moment). Also means you can still shoot with weapon power disabled. That means you have 1 dummy subsystem you don't care about. Now the cannons do go down if you loose your aux. But one battery now restores your offense and defense.
3. Not everyone has a red matter capacitor.
4. Not having to use aux bats to buff your heals allows you to use other bats.
5. It's just pretty convenient to have your sci powers/heals always at full strength
6. Depending on your rear weapons you don't have any disadvantages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thishorizon View Post
nor do i understand NOT using the innate sub system targeting on sci ships....i did real that up there didnt I? i mean, hell, 1 rear array gets that done just fine. why not run it....?
I agree with the beam in the rear completely. It also won't matter if you have power in it, so it works well with the aux cannons. That leaves you with 2 slots. You can go normal cannons and combine them with turrets, for more dmg. Or you just use mines with the aux ones, I would say it's a matter of preference and the general purpose of your ship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thishorizon View Post
i just see this thing as a big slightly underpowered escort. well, the tac version anyway...and why you would run any of the other versions is way beyond me. this game is so damn defensive as it is.

ah well, maybe i'll get back in mine for a bit.... do some testing again.

have fun kill bad guys
I prefer to fly it more as a support vessel. Do some healing/CC and assist with CRF when needed. There are already so many escorts flying around, I love to do some support/healing.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,111
# 46
12-04-2012, 04:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heegoo419 View Post
i understand where you are coming from with the "crazy consoles" logic. I agree that the Theta console is more of a "gimick" or "luxury" console but I have found that minus escorts running APO its a nice thing to trap the enemy and get them to stop moving. In the least it gets them to use a HE to clear it out.

The other consoles i do grant you have a somewhat long cooldown compared to the benefit you receive from them, but this is the way i look at it: if i did not have the team fortress console (for example) i would have another phaser relay which yes would increase my dps, but thats not what i'm there to really do. the team fortress console and the fermion console i use as "in between cooldown" heals. If i am unable to send out any heals for my team atleast i can use those consoles, and by the time i need them again they are usually off cooldown.

I see what your saying about these new Aux powered DHC's, that they are causing a nerf for my healing. I have noticed that when im running the SV1 with those cannons my AUX never drops below 105-100 aux (when running at full aux). And to be honest this is easily solved by just not hitting the spacebar right before you send out your heals.

I know that the Breen cluster torp seems to be a stupid choice, but it seems to work for me. i used to run the tric mines but i never had any real luck with them doing any significant damage, if they ever even hit. and i feel as though running 3 beams in the back would be somewhat of a waste as well with minimal weapons power. And so far with the breen torp i've seen some pretty good bleed-through damage come out of it, and i have had much better luck with it hitting my target than the tric mines.

Please dont get me wrong on this post, i was just trying to show my reasoning as to why i put this build together the way i did. I respect your opinions and as i pvp more and more in different situations i will probably end up changing a few or more things.
okay okay then, lets tackle this another way.

you have again, in your own posts, described how what you are running just isnt keeping you alive. those consoles every 3 minutes for your "off" heals are nothing compared to a properly spec'd and full aux tss3,he2 combo every 45 seconds. i mean, they are so far off its insanity.... this is better for you, and your teammates than any toy console you could ever run.

so i had shown you, or spoke of, an option that let you run tss3,tss2, he2, he1......maybe a little overkill, but now they are popping every 30 seconds.

also, if you see theta as a "luxury" console, then i'd like to help you out with giving you a console choice that will give you the "luxury" of staying alive. cruisers ignore stuff like that if its not in a kill cycle from a premade. all sci ships carry he, and escorts omega. it only comes around, again, every 3 minutes...

and well, the team fortress console is just hax. but again, please understand:

what you want are choices that impact *EVERY SECOND* of your gameplay. not every 3 minutes for 15 seconds. thats about a 165 second advantage the way i see it. every 3 minutes.

have fun kill bad guys

Last edited by thishorizon; 12-04-2012 at 04:55 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 42
# 47
12-04-2012, 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thishorizon View Post
okay okay then, lets tackle this another way.

you have again, in your own posts, described how what you are running just isnt keeping you alive. those consoles every 3 minutes for your "off" heals are nothing compared to a properly spec'd and full aux tss3,he2 combo every 45 seconds. i mean, they are so far off its insanity.... this is better for you, and your teammates than any toy console you could ever run.

so i had shown you, or spoke of, an option that let you run tss3,tss2, he2, he1......maybe a little overkill, but now they are popping every 30 seconds.

also, if you see theta as a "luxury" console, then i'd like to help you out with giving you a console choice that will give you the "luxury" of staying alive. cruisers ignore stuff like that if its not in a kill cycle from a premade. all sci ships carry he, and escorts omega. it only comes around, again, every 3 minutes...

and well, the team fortress console is just hax. but again, please understand:

what you want are choices that impact *EVERY SECOND* of your gameplay. not every 3 minutes for 15 seconds. thats about a 165 second advantage the way i see it. every 3 minutes.

have fun kill bad guys
Well im not exactly sure where your getting that im having survivability issues. I dont remember ever posting that anywhere. I have actually found that the vesta can tank quite well on her own while still distributing heals.

Honestly i don't see how i dont have a properly specced TSS3 and HE. I didnt sacrifice any consoles for those abilites. Please take another look at the sci consoles i equipped. I used the vesta consoles in the tact and engi slots. So im not sure how im not running a properly speced heals. Btw i am running TSS 3 and 2 and HE 1 and 2. So im not sure what your point was there.

One tactic i see very often in pvp in premades as well as pugs is when you focus fire someone and that player starts recieving heals is the focus firing team switches to a different target. And they will keep doing this until all the heals are distributed and the person they are attacking is exposed. The team fortress console combined with the fermion console makes for a nice 12 second cushion for your main heals to get off cooldown.

I can see we look at these consoles from 2 very different point of views and this is why i love pvp to be honest because there really are so many different possibilities and variety is the ways of thinking that it makes for more fun than the same old shooting nanite generators.

I hope during this discussion i have not made it on to your list of "bad guys" because everone knows your motto
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,111
# 48
12-04-2012, 08:56 AM
my bad dude,

through my morning haze i thought i was still talking to that stealthrider dude.

lol

edit: but my advice still stands for all the vesta pilots out there running the vesta consoles, and then another toy or two. you are really hampering your build.

and no heegoo...we are all good guys until i find out you are on the blue team. i hate those guys

go red team go!

Last edited by thishorizon; 12-04-2012 at 09:01 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 42
# 49
12-04-2012, 10:31 AM
Do they have home depots in the 24th century? Cause i need some red spray paint...
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,660
# 50
12-04-2012, 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heegoo419 View Post
Do they have home depots in the 24th century? Cause i need some red spray paint...
Careful, they'll start selling stickers in the Lobi store to make ships go faster...


"Wheeeee, this is kind of fun. Oopsie...my bad."
Fleet Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
Endless, Hazari Destroyer
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