Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,213
# 71
12-04-2012, 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
this is why i have no interest in premades, pvp pecking orders, the elite pvp fleets, and pvp dynastyes. what the hell are you all talking about anyway? are any of you having fun any more?

i am, because i know that being good at pvp, or even the best at it is not a tangible accomplishment. the only thing you can get out of it is enjoyment. i will always do what i think is fun first, and what is effective second. luckily, what i find fun through accident or force of will becomes effective in its own way, and much fun is had.

i think everyone needs to just forget this thread ever happened, and decide for yourselves just what is fair play and what isn't and let your builds reflect that. we all know what sucks the fun out of pvp, and it will never be ok with me to use any of it.
I've said it in a few threads. Yeah, I get there are egos and reputation, etc, etc, etc - but it's STO PvP - it's casual. Pew Pew for Fun! It's kind of insane how folks get their panties so bunched up about it.

They're the kind of discussions that I would have expected to see back in UO, AO, SB, and EVE. They always made me laugh in games like WoW...and other casual PvP games.

I suppose it's a FPS mentality - where nothing really came of it, but it was about reputation and egos. I got old, though - left that all behind back in my HLDM days. Sure, in certain games with PvP where the outcome mattered - definitely took it serioulsy, but wanting to be known as the best guy with a crowbar on TM3 was so long ago - besides, I always had to give the edge to BigRedMachine.

...ruh roh, I'm going down memory lane - time to go take my medications and put my teeth in, eh?

But yeah, Pew Pew for Fun... I mean, seriously - would you walk up to somebody and tell them that you're big in PvP in STO - and - and - and - not expect them to laugh their ass off?

People take this too seriously... and seriously, nobody commented on my S7 Chimera BoomBoomBoat?
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba

Last edited by virusdancer; 12-04-2012 at 08:06 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 64
# 72
12-04-2012, 08:37 AM
Guess I just find it funny you say you guys didn't use FAW much.

As far as your shove it down their throats mentality goes, they would have to be listening first. I suppose if a country wanted to prove to the world how bad nuclear weapons are, they could just fire off every nuke they have to show them their right too. Or if someone wanted to pass a law to be harder on child rapists, they should first put 5 convicted rapists to work in every school to prove how much harm they can do.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,409
# 73
12-04-2012, 09:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grindsmygears1 View Post
Guess I just find it funny you say you guys didn't use FAW much.

As far as your shove it down their throats mentality goes, they would have to be listening first. I suppose if a country wanted to prove to the world how bad nuclear weapons are, they could just fire off every nuke they have to show them their right too. Or if someone wanted to pass a law to be harder on child rapists, they should first put 5 convicted rapists to work in every school to prove how much harm they can do.
those are really extreme compairisons.

your first example-

the problem there is that the world knows how deadly nukes are, so if a country is threating to nuke the world because theyre not listened too, they will get listened too.

Cryptic doesnt even seemingly know just how powerful these consoles and abilities are, and on rare specific occasions have flat out said theyre supposed to be more powerful because you buy them.

the problem is, the pvp community knows just how OVER POWERFUL they are compaired to everything else. cryptic does not.
i see that as because the pvp community has kept it to itself mostly, while people who have no idea what theyre doing use them and dont see any issues, because theyre more then likely not using them right.

your second example-
if theyre convicted then that means its already been determined by the group at large just how dangerous they are.

once again, crypitc does not have this because the people who know just how extreme they are don't use them out of a gentlemens agreement. which has cause any eyes that see them being used, being only used by people who are not making the most out of them.

once again- the pvp community keeping it to itself has cause absolutly NO changes to occur to the powers, not even a global cooldown. in fact, i think the community keeping quite has made it worse.

remember when consoles were restricted to their own ships class? that had a little bit of balance to it. then they took it away too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 64
# 74
12-04-2012, 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
those are really extreme compairisons.

your first example-

the problem there is that the world knows how deadly nukes are, so if a country is threating to nuke the world because theyre not listened too, they will get listened too.

so your point here is that your only threatening the community to use them?

Cryptic doesnt even seemingly know just how powerful these consoles and abilities are, and on rare specific occasions have flat out said theyre supposed to be more powerful because you buy them.

the problem is, the pvp community knows just how OVER POWERFUL they are compaired to everything else. cryptic does not.
i see that as because the pvp community has kept it to itself mostly, while people who have no idea what theyre doing use them and dont see any issues, because theyre more then likely not using them right.

really? The community has cried foul since the day cryptic announced they would make consoles universal. If they haven't listened so far, your solution is to drive as many people away from pvp by chewing them to death to get cryptic to listen? "Cutting your nose off to spite your face" essentially

your second example-
if theyre convicted then that means its already been determined by the group at large just how dangerous they are.

once again, crypitc does not have this because the people who know just how extreme they are don't use them out of a gentlemens agreement. which has cause any eyes that see them being used, being only used by people who are not making the most out of them.

once again- the pvp community keeping it to itself has cause absolutly NO changes to occur to the powers, not even a global cooldown. in fact, i think the community keeping quite has made it worse.

your argument is based in the fact that cryptic indeed cares about balance>profit. The only way they're going to listen is if you hurt their profit enough to make them listen. That involves driving away as many people from pvp as possible. Even then, how many people would it take to overcome their profits in console sales?

remember when consoles were restricted to their own ships class? that had a little bit of balance to it. then they took it away too.
I do remember, and it was balanced. In reality, we've had console powers dating back to when the intrepid was introduced, even if the extra power wasn't a console. It's them becoming universal that became the issue. You think cryptic will seriously reverse this decision?

Last edited by grindsmygears1; 12-04-2012 at 09:37 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 30
# 75
12-04-2012, 09:32 AM
*** Popcorn **** as Ralph would say

Not gonna touch this one with a 10 foot pole...

Don't really care what everyone uses, we are all here to have fun and that's what I queue for.
Seven of Eleven
"live long enough to be assimilated, resistance is futile"
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,392
# 76
12-04-2012, 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grindsmygears1 View Post
I do remember, and it was balanced. In reality, we've had console powers dating back to when the intrepid was introduced, even if the extra power wasn't a console. It's them becoming universal that became the issue. You think cryptic will seriously reverse this decision?
It may have been less unbalanced, but the game wasn't balanced then.

Or are you forgetting the lolz Raiders could bring w/the 1st go around of Vent theta console et al?

How about the C-Store ships themselves not being balanced pre-Season 5 and it took the +.5 ships coming out for a Dev to finally admit C-Store ships were by design meant to be OP all along?
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 234
# 77
12-04-2012, 09:54 AM
i often wonder why P2W is such a problem i mean in reality u can get any of the ships/consoles with dilithum feds can buy theta cheap klinks can buy ams cheap. i have 2 accounts with mutiple toons which allows me to make alot of zen on a weekly basis if u know how to watch the dil market there is no reason why anyone with a few toons cant make 1000zen a week so again why is it called P2W when all u have to do is play the game to get it?

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=473411

Last edited by livinrtb; 12-04-2012 at 04:49 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 64
# 78
12-04-2012, 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
It may have been less unbalanced, but the game wasn't balanced then.

Or are you forgetting the lolz Raiders could bring w/the 1st go around of Vent theta console et al?

How about the C-Store ships themselves not being balanced pre-Season 5 and it took the +.5 ships coming out for a Dev to finally admit C-Store ships were by design meant to be OP all along?
To be fair,in the life of this game, it has been unbalanced 10 times the amount of time it actually has been balanced (some would even argue that it's never been balanced) so I guess the term "balanced" is relative to the users perception.

The devs know damn well that the consoles create unbalance. It's already been pointed out in this thread that they admitted to making them OP to sell them. Not sure how pointing out they're OP to the people that came right out and said they're OP is going to change much. Best case scenario is they will nerf them, and then tsi will take credit and continue to use them. Either way, you guys are going to use them from here on out. It's just easier to stand on a pedestal and say "we're doing this for the pvp community" while making everyone you come across completely miserable.

Gentlemans agreement, treaties, accords...call it what you will, they never work. In the end, the amount of cheese you bring to the table is just a sign of your character. Please don't try to dress it up for more than it is. This community is to smart to be fooled that easily.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 64
# 79
12-04-2012, 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by livinrtb View Post
i often wonder why P2W is such a problem i mean in reality u can get any of the ships/consoles with dilithum feds can buy theta cheap klinks can buy ams cheap. i have 2 accounts with mutiple toons which allows me to make alot of zen on a weekly basis if u know how to watch the dil market there is no reason why anyone with a few toons cant make 1000zen a week so again why is it called P2W when all u have to do is play the game to get it?
Just a general handle given to the OP item sold out of the z-store. Whether YOU paid real money or traded dil-zen, SOMEBODY paid enough real money to buy it.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,392
# 80
12-04-2012, 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by livinrtb View Post
i often wonder why P2W is such a problem i mean in reality u can get any of the ships/consoles with dilithum feds can buy theta cheap klinks can buy ams cheap. i have 2 accounts with mutiple toons which allows me to make alot of zen on a weekly basis if u know how to watch the dil market there is no reason why anyone with a few toons cant make 1000zen a week so again why is it called P2W when all u have to do is play the game to get it?
1. It speeds up power creep. This pushes the extremes of balancing.

2. It eats up a lot of dev time making the next power creep.

3. It encourages gambling via lotto boxes.

4. While you may not pay for it someone does.

5. There are now tiers of P2W which aren't balanced, and there's unbalances intra tiers of P2W.

6. People play games for fun, not to grind ie work. PvPers, don't like having to grind PvE all the time.

7. It gates new players from being as compatative as they could/should be, since they now have to grind for doffs, ships, sets, P2W consoles, etc.

8. 1-7 drives players from PvP resulting Cryptic Mgt having a pretext to not invest in PvP.
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