Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 394
# 41
12-05-2012, 05:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dariusmajere View Post
I have a full time Job and a soon to be 7 year old Son. While he is at a friends house playing or in no interest to hang out with dad I play the game. I consider my self to have a decently full plate. Kid during the Day and work overnight. As well as having 2 Active subs on Eve Online that I handle, 2 subs on Perpetuum Online, SWtor (not worth subbing to but fun at times) and STo running in TWO fleets. I still Get projects going and so does the fleeties. You need either to figure out how to organize your time and how you get stuff done or quit playing one of the Least Grinding Games out there in the MMO community. Considering You can get to end game within 3-4 days of simple Playing and hitting Mirror Events, If you maximize your dilithium Earnings and spending the game works for you, not you work for it. You Can Curse at other players or me all you want. But from the Majority of us who have Ran or still run small Fleets, to the Larger Fleets, You won't find much pitty, Especially since it keeps getting EASIER for the Casual Base.
I'm guessing keeping that many games running, you more or less farm your son out to various friends. Does he even know what you look like? Or do you get to play at work?

Just kidding, kinda.

I think the problem isn't that it requires too many resources, it's that there are too many resources to collect. If I, as a casual player, manage to play for, say 5 hours per week, which is entirely possible, that gives enough time for maybe 300 Omega/Romulan marks, and probably less than half of that in Fleet Marks, assuming a little time is left for the likes of Doffing. Now imagine a small fleet of people, all of whom play this casually. Indeed the fleet is created to provide them with a home because a lot of the larger fleets insist on people playing for however long per week, or minimum requirements for starbase projects, and so on.

Now, if you were one of those casual players in one of those fleets, would you want to be able to both contribute to the fleet starbase and progress with your personal game goals (rep, STFs, or whatever they may be), or would you want to be forced into one type of content over another every time you logged into the game because the game is set up to penalise players like you? And now the Embassy system comes along and near enough doubles your grind?

What does it matter if smaller fleets can progress just as quickly as larger fleets? As you said yourself (I think, it may have been someone else in this thread), starbases are social areas, personal to a player's fleet and not really looked at by anyone else.

As I suggested in another thread, and as someone else suggested in this thread, why not scale the projects depending on how many people are in the fleet? Larger fleets require more resources but offer more rewards (ie Fleet credits), smaller fleets require less resources, but give smaller rewards. I would say I would apply this mostly to the limited time projects because it is a hell of a lot harder for a fleet of 5 players to come up with 400k spare dilithium than it is for a fleet of 50.

Doing it this way would be good for the players, since they can see progress being made on their fleet base, and it would be good for the fleets because it is encouraging people in the fleet to be active.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 42
12-05-2012, 05:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snipe048 View Post
You know what **** you, you don't know me so don't act like you do after reading one post.

Also I've never called someone a name on forum to make a point, and I'm pathetic. Go **** yourself.

I've personally sunk over 3 million Dilithium into my fleet while my fleet mates grinded the doffs, commodities, etc... and we all did the fleet mark events. But since Season 7 launched we don't have the time to grind Fleet mark events like we used to, in addition to all the new grindy events that have been added.

I'm not asking to be rewarded for doing nothing, i'm asking to take a little grind off the top of my Grind cake,


Nah, you just implied that other people "don't have lives" because they don't follow your line of thought. Don't play that uppity *life* card nonsense if you don't want to get slapped upside the head with it. And don't get pissy because you got called out for saying exactly what you said, which is that you want something for nothing. It takes 20 minutes at most to meet your daily mark requirements to keep the Romulan reputation train running, and you can earn fleet marks while doing it. In the 15 minutes it takes to keep your Omega train running, you're also earning dilithium and loot. That leaves a whole lot of time to do fleet mark events, if that's what floats your boat.

This game's so-called grind is ridiculously easy for a casual player. I can manage to push my personal goals along and contribute to my fleet at a decent clip, and I play maybe an hour a day, and I don't even have any alts like most of the community does. The Doff system is a casual players dream, and the time-gated dilithium and reputation systems make it incredibly easy to keep up with hardcore players. What more do you want?

And if you can't fill your damned quota, who the hell cares. It's not a race. Play the damn game and donate what you can when you can. My fleet recently spent a week grinding out the fleet marks to upgrade our starbase to the next tier... did we piss and moan about it? No, we just accepted that it's going to take a little bit longer. And yeah, it's pathetic because your making a damned mountain out of a molehill. Your asking for another exploitable clicky reward system after we finally got most of them removed from the game.

If you want to fix small fleets, then come up with an innovate idea that actually addresses the problem. Maybe some sort of alliance system that allows small fleets to share starbase evolution without giving up their small fleet status. Don't ask for nonsense exploitable handouts.

Last edited by xantris; 12-05-2012 at 05:58 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 352
# 43
12-05-2012, 06:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bortjinx View Post
I'm guessing keeping that many games running, you more or less farm your son out to various friends. Does he even know what you look like? Or do you get to play at work?

Just kidding, kinda.

I think the problem isn't that it requires too many resources, it's that there are too many resources to collect. If I, as a casual player, manage to play for, say 5 hours per week, which is entirely possible, that gives enough time for maybe 300 Omega/Romulan marks, and probably less than half of that in Fleet Marks, assuming a little time is left for the likes of Doffing. Now imagine a small fleet of people, all of whom play this casually. Indeed the fleet is created to provide them with a home because a lot of the larger fleets insist on people playing for however long per week, or minimum requirements for starbase projects, and so on.

Now, if you were one of those casual players in one of those fleets, would you want to be able to both contribute to the fleet starbase and progress with your personal game goals (rep, STFs, or whatever they may be), or would you want to be forced into one type of content over another every time you logged into the game because the game is set up to penalise players like you? And now the Embassy system comes along and near enough doubles your grind?

What does it matter if smaller fleets can progress just as quickly as larger fleets? As you said yourself (I think, it may have been someone else in this thread), starbases are social areas, personal to a player's fleet and not really looked at by anyone else.

As I suggested in another thread, and as someone else suggested in this thread, why not scale the projects depending on how many people are in the fleet? Larger fleets require more resources but offer more rewards (ie Fleet credits), smaller fleets require less resources, but give smaller rewards. I would say I would apply this mostly to the limited time projects because it is a hell of a lot harder for a fleet of 5 players to come up with 400k spare dilithium than it is for a fleet of 50.

Doing it this way would be good for the players, since they can see progress being made on their fleet base, and it would be good for the fleets because it is encouraging people in the fleet to be active.
I don't Farm my son out LOL. Sadly at 7 tho he has already told me I crowd him to much Love my kid to death, Before him I spent most of my cash on Computer tech or other toys. Now I have actually learned how to save my cash and spend most of it on him now (which is how it should be) But before he started Kindergarten he loved spending time with me, now it's his friends already. Honestly I like it that way because he is not like me sitting infront of the PC all the time or a TV as some parents let happen. The kids he hangs out with are not console dwellers either thankfully so he is actually out running around. But back on topic.

The Problem is, the systems that you all started to build were Blantly put out infront of you. The problem with them Scalling the requirements to the size of the fleet is then all Fleets are leveling Fairly and Equally. A small Fleet should not be building at the same size as a Large Fleet. Because then The Fleetism (My form for STO racism) is reversed. Now you are punishing Large fleets for Succeeding. This is not fair as well.

What Cryptic did was build a system and Place it for everyone to Weigh in on prior to release. They have been making changes to the system based on player feed back. Perfect Example as I have stated was the Fking rediculous needs for the bartender (Honestly The cost for that idiot and what he gives is pure stupidity, I get better goods at the Captains Table). No matter what changes they do to the starbase system it has to remain Fair to the overall base of players. Going by how many players actually get on the forums and complain, this is a few people. If more logged onto the forums and voice there oppinion Cryptic Would listen more. If only a few call unfairness, but the majority stay quiet just like in real life, nothing Gets done quickly. Most of the forums Posters are well aware of who each other is, that is how small of the complaint base that actually goes out there is.

The starbase ALSO is designed to be a LONG TERM goal. Not a short term Goal like the reputation system. That can be finished in 2 maybe 2 1/2 months. I know I am in tier 3 and it's barely been alive. Once the Rep systems are done everybody will be flooding the bases again then people will be complaining (again) that they never have opportunities to donate anything to the Tabs.

Rule #1 of a MMO - The Forum Player base is NEVER happy.
Rule #2 is based off Rule #1: If they are, Give it a day they will find something to complain about.
Rule #3 No matter what you do to improve one players life it will easily piss off 10 others.

This is easily Verifiable (the numbers might not be fully correct.. ) to check out the results of Every Patch, Hell look at Tribble Notes. You will have people Thanking the Dev for one thing AND in the next post People ******** about What is not Fixed yet. The Devs are human, they can only do so much. They have lives Also, either playing the game, OR there Families that You Players complain about not seeing due to the Grind. Well there time is Grinded on Fixing Stuff, they need breaks to. ( I know I am a heretic for thinking like this)
Proud Fleet Commander in Garfon's Renegades!
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
http://massivechaos.enjin.com/
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 967
# 44
12-05-2012, 06:07 AM
If Cryptic puts a 150 to 200 membership cap on fleets, they can lower the resource requirements for everyone. Instead of having only a handful of fleets consisting of 400+ members, "Star Trek: Online" will have many smaller, happier, and diverse fleets.

Smaller fleets = less resource requirements = less grinding = happier players.

Larger fleets are hording players and resources; thus, they are crushing the competition of smaller fleets.

Players have decided to join bigger fleets, for they are being lured by free provisions.

Smaller fleets cannot compete against larger fleets giving out free stuff.

Last edited by linyive; 12-05-2012 at 06:16 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 45
12-05-2012, 06:17 AM
Cap fleets at 50 people
Reduce ALL dilithium costs for fleet projects by 90%
Allow fleets to be "Associate" with each other and share resources

Oh and remove all numbering from fleets
make them ALL the same age and same size

no more "we are the largest fleet join us or die"

its as bad as the borg
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,357
# 46
12-05-2012, 06:31 AM
I like the idea of scaling the requirements AND rewards. Sure, everyone would level more or less equally, assuming the members care the same for their bases.
Fleet sizes would regulated themselves then better.
people not joining the mega fleets needlessly for the T4/5 rewards and fleets not only recruiting for faceless donators.

The overall average leveling time would then probably be longer that what we see from the mega fleets now, although there should also be a slight advantage to really big fleets through a mild resource cap for projects.

But there are 2 problems with this system.

people temporarily kicking their members to get the small requirements after pooling their resources and then letting people rejoin for the cheaply bought rewards.

And fleet leaders being trigger happy with kicking temporarily inactive players because they start to become a drain on their fleet mates.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,360
# 47
12-05-2012, 06:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dariusmajere View Post
Smaller fleets were supposed to average a YEAR AND A HALF to TWO YEARS to hit tier 5.
Ignoring the rest of your condescending BS, there is nothing offered by a tier 5 fleet base that is worth two years of work.

If small fleets are unworthy and undeserving, then I guess they don't want those small fleet subscription dollars.

Last edited by hanover2; 12-05-2012 at 06:39 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,360
# 48
12-05-2012, 06:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by valoreah View Post
Both utterly ridiculous and nonsensical. Why should small fleets be discouraged?
Because someone has got it in his prissy little head that fleet size is proof of superiority, to be lorded over everyone else.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,015
# 49
12-05-2012, 06:45 AM
time a moderator shut this thread down, too much negativity in here
Go pro or go home
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 352
# 50
12-05-2012, 06:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
time a moderator shut this thread down, too much negativity in here
* blinks* This is way to mild for it to get shut down. Let's reserve the closing of threads to those with an actual necessity. People are still for the most part discussing situations to improve the ways. Only a few not worth reading have popped up.
Proud Fleet Commander in Garfon's Renegades!
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
http://massivechaos.enjin.com/
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