Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,541
# 41
12-05-2012, 04:19 PM
Personally I find the most hyprocritical sitation/statement to be:

"Yes, it's ok to use what ever console/ship/Doff/Power combination you want."

"But it's bad to use it in order to cause grief in the ques/Open areas just to try to get Dev attention"

Because Your saying it's ok to use it. Just don't use it to cause grief.

If it causes grief, it shouldn't be Ok to use in the first place.

I've been slowly changing how I feel about "P2W" consoles. My reactions varies now depending on which consoles I run into, but there are 3 that still scream, to me, need some kind of attention for one reason or another..

Vent Theta radiation: Annoying, stupid, No counter to the possible Bug of how it kills ALL of a ships Crew at the same speed regardless of the size of the Ship and keeps it dead until you either A: Die, or B: Get out of combat long enough for it to regenerate.

AMS: Annoying, disruptive, and some times abusive on the verge of GRiefing. Clearable with SCi team, Scramble Only duration reduced with Sensor skill training.. Could use some rechecking between it and Sensor skill.

Aceton Assimilator: Needs some tweeking. It needs to be reduced to 1 deploy per ship per cooldown. Too many of these can lead to griefing. Can be deployed from B'rel-R Cloak and NOT reveal.

And yet, I have seen at least 2 of those consoles employed by some players and fleets of higher reputation..including Nova Core. The Consoles above I named are just examples of grief causing consoles, that when used by veteran, or more experneiced PVPers can cause major grief. Yet It's ok to use it in Nova Core land because you paid for it, so go ahead and use it.

It's the reason why I have been against Nova Core and SOB's ideals in the past, my self. And while there may be players I respect in one form or fashion from each fleet, and may even be friends with, I'm not friends with the entire fleet. And as long as they continue to play in such fashions, I doubt I'd be able to agree with much, if anything, gets stated here on the forums.

I mean let's face it, if you don't agree with using tactics that are wildly felt to be buggy, abusive, and causing of grief, then you shouldn't use them your self and try to give excuses for it.

Personally, I have been "Grief console" free for some time now. And I don't have any of the Doffs that cause grief either as far as I'm aware. But hey, if Nova Core and TSI say it's ok, it might be ok right? So who cares if we scare people away from KVF and FVF ques. As long as WE have fun is the point..
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 182
# 42
12-05-2012, 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripwire690 View Post
Hmmm. Is it so much the bit about cleaning up our image or in fact you mean playing in such a way as to be approved by other players? Kinda like not being able to eat your lunch on the big kid's swings unless you get the schoolyard bullie's approval first?

Hmmm. Must be nice to be so fresh and clean. I appreciate your comment. Yes. I'm hear to clean up the image of Nova Core. We will answer the community's challenge to play the way the community wants us to play. I will make sure of that. And when it is all said and done and enough schoolyard bullies on the playground have been dumped headfirst into the sandbox we will go back to enjoying our lunch the way we choose to. Not the way we are told to by bullies who think they run this game because they have extremely good players. But because it is our own odd egocentric definition of "fun" we use to past the time by until life calls us back in from recess.
So The rest of the PVP community are bullies? Beating up on Pugs and new players tryin to get into PVP with 5 man AMS teams and all kinds of other dumb consoles seems more like bullying to me. i am sure it has them wanting to pvp more and more.........

Quote of the week:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
a pure cannon build is always less effective than original starfleet specs

correct build is as it comes out of the factory
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10
# 43
12-05-2012, 04:21 PM
I do a lot of PvP (under the name of my KDF cardassian pirate toon Burpoowheel) and i've meet Nova Core members a lot of time (and i've been killed by them an impressive number of time, and kill some of you some times) and I have to be agree with you on everything you told in the first post.

First of all, the Pay To Win things is irrelevent as a lot of universal console can be now obtain by Special Console Pack (at about 1 or 2 M on the exchange for most of them) and as dilithium farming (and yes we can farm dili in season 7) allow us to have ton of zen and buy alomost everything we want for free (it could take a while, sure, but hey ! What do you expect? Having the best stuff on your first day on STO?)

"Cheesing" (and every other "way" of playing) are not a problem neither. Every tactics, every ship, and evey build have its weakness and we just have to find it if we so want to blow the guy using it.

And in conclusion, i want to add that, as a PvPer (not the best around, sure, but not the worst either) I never had a single issue with any member of Nova Core. Each time i met on of them, he was polite, mature and smart. So yes, your fleet beat me almost everytime I encounter its member, but those are the best and more intense fight I have in the game.

PS : And again, sorry for my poor poor english
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 272
# 44
12-05-2012, 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
You guys have to realize something here.

That the effects of that attitude of "anything goes" really does impact this community weather you like it or not or disagree with it.

There is absolutely nothing "fun" about flying from the respawn point and back into a combat situation only to find yourself grav pulsed, SN doff'd, then tric bombed over and over and over again.

Jungle or no jungle, we are not apes to grit our teeth at one another like a bunch of animals. Just adhere to the frustrations and show some empathy to those that express those concerns and frustrations.

Use your junk in Kerrat, in STFs, in private matches, but going around using that crap on people in the queues is just trolling. You don't like it when it's done to you, so don't do it to others. Challenge yourself, not others that use the junk.

Fight the good fight should be our motto from here on. We all know what's messed up and what isn't. We should all convene together every now and then to discuss these things VERBALLY rather than hide behind keyboards, fleet tags, Dev negligence, and use harsh words and phrases.

INTERNATIONALPVP.TYPEFRAG.COM:62245
I understand your sentiment, but the truth is not everyone will challenge themselves to do the right thing. Just because I found your wallet and returned it to you with all the cash within it dose not mean I should 'expect' the same treatment from someone who finds my wallet. Your just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Real world police make sure that pay-to-win hotrod doing 95 gets pulled over. So what is true there must also be true in the virtual, that only enforcement can deter undesirable behaivor.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 151
# 45
12-05-2012, 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by webdeath View Post
Personally I find the most hyprocritical sitation/statement to be:

"Yes, it's ok to use what ever console/ship/Doff/Power combination you want."

"But it's bad to use it in order to cause grief in the ques/Open areas just to try to get Dev attention"

Because Your saying it's ok to use it. Just don't use it to cause grief.

If it causes grief, it shouldn't be Ok to use in the first place.

I've been slowly changing how I feel about "P2W" consoles. My reactions varies now depending on which consoles I run into, but there are 3 that still scream, to me, need some kind of attention for one reason or another..

Vent Theta radiation: Annoying, stupid, No counter to the possible Bug of how it kills ALL of a ships Crew at the same speed regardless of the size of the Ship and keeps it dead until you either A: Die, or B: Get out of combat long enough for it to regenerate.

AMS: Annoying, disruptive, and some times abusive on the verge of GRiefing. Clearable with SCi team, Scramble Only duration reduced with Sensor skill training.. Could use some rechecking between it and Sensor skill.

Aceton Assimilator: Needs some tweeking. It needs to be reduced to 1 deploy per ship per cooldown. Too many of these can lead to griefing. Can be deployed from B'rel-R Cloak and NOT reveal.

And yet, I have seen at least 2 of those consoles employed by some players and fleets of higher reputation..including Nova Core. The Consoles above I named are just examples of grief causing consoles, that when used by veteran, or more experneiced PVPers can cause major grief. Yet It's ok to use it in Nova Core land because you paid for it, so go ahead and use it.

That's right. Perhaps in your fleet you force people to do what you say. But in Nova Core we don't. Does that mean we don't have ideals? Does that mean we don't have values or principles? We are people too. Both players from S.O.B. and Nova Core have been burned when trying to play it "fair". I don't mean to speak for S.O.B btw. I'm just including them because people trash talk them all the time. I didn't always agree with what they ran in the past either. But their A-team is smart and resourceful. I don't hate. I acknowledge they understand how to use a certain setup to an extreme advantage. If we are going to meet as fleet leaders of multiple fleets and discuss ways we can restrict certain things from use in pvp to improve the overall pvp experience of the community then Nova Core is on board. But we don't dictate to anyone in a public queue they cannot run this or that console because we say so. We can only try and sell them on the idea it devalues the PvP experience as a whole and therefore should understand why it is a bad idea to use this or that thing.

It's the reason why I have been against Nova Core and SOB's ideals in the past, my self. And while there may be players I respect in one form or fashion from each fleet, and may even be friends with, I'm not friends with the entire fleet. And as long as they continue to play in such fashions, I doubt I'd be able to agree with much, if anything, gets stated here on the forums.

Then obviously you weren't around when we would get smashed by other fleets running the "cheese". We were one of the first fleets to not run what was broken or use running it as an excuse to flag down a dev. You claim to be against both Nova Core's and S.O.B.'s ideals but it is obvious your words are misinformed and empty. We don't only have pvper's but pver's also in our fleet. We take pride in any way our members choose to show their commitment to the fleet. We have a charter. Mail me in game. I'll invite you to our website. We can have a chill and informed conversation over which I will show you our Charter if you are that interested in learning our "ideals".

I mean let's face it, if you don't agree with using tactics that are wildly felt to be buggy, abusive, and causing of grief, then you shouldn't use them your self and try to give excuses for it.

You cannot ensure every player who queues up won't run the "cheese" as much as any othe player can. We can make alliances. We can be friends. We can lead by majority example. But I don't ever recall you asking for our TS info and hopping on our teamspeak to try and discuss the state of pvp and how you'd like to encourage us to take a different approach to the way we pvp. Again. mail me in game. Back your words up. Lets talk and see if we can't come to an agreement instead of you lining up with everyone else and only talking negatively about what very little you know about the players in our guild.

Personally, I have been "Grief console" free for some time now. And I don't have any of the Doffs that cause grief either as far as I'm aware. But hey, if Nova Core and TSI say it's ok, it might be ok right? So who cares if we scare people away from KVF and FVF ques. As long as WE have fun is the point..
Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofcritz View Post
So The rest of the PVP community are bullies? Beating up on Pugs and new players tryin to get into PVP with 5 man AMS teams and all kinds of other dumb consoles seems more like bullying to me. i am sure it has them wanting to pvp more and more.........

"So player A gets spammed by player B. Player B doesn't spam player A back but after being repeatedly spammed by player A in multiple matches as well as players C-Z. Player B decides to defend himself in the only way he has been shown best by the majority of the other players." I'm sure this hypothetical scenario is one in which many fleets can relate. What skills make pvp unfun to play are not appropriate for the queues. It is technically not the players job to enforce this but the developers job to see what is wrong with certain skills used by players on all sides and tweak them so that everyone is having a good time. PvP has been neglected for longer than many players care to remember. The rest of the community as a whole are not bullies. But players who spam because they were spammed first with no remorse. It doesn't make it right but it is a logical reaction. Nova Core wants whats best for the PvP community. If I can speak with fleet leaders from multiple fleets and we can all agree on what action we will take as a community to ensure the queues are more fun for everyone then we will abide by whatever course is agreed on. But that starts with communication. Not continuing to attack my fleet on what has already happened in the past.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bblbrx View Post
I do a lot of PvP (under the name of my KDF cardassian pirate toon Burpoowheel) and i've meet Nova Core members a lot of time (and i've been killed by them an impressive number of time, and kill some of you some times) and I have to be agree with you on everything you told in the first post.

First of all, the Pay To Win things is irrelevent as a lot of universal console can be now obtain by Special Console Pack (at about 1 or 2 M on the exchange for most of them) and as dilithium farming (and yes we can farm dili in season 7) allow us to have ton of zen and buy alomost everything we want for free (it could take a while, sure, but hey ! What do you expect? Having the best stuff on your first day on STO?)

"Cheesing" (and every other "way" of playing) are not a problem neither. Every tactics, every ship, and evey build have its weakness and we just have to find it if we so want to blow the guy using it.

And in conclusion, i want to add that, as a PvPer (not the best around, sure, but not the worst either) I never had a single issue with any member of Nova Core. Each time i met on of them, he was polite, mature and smart. So yes, your fleet beat me almost everytime I encounter its member, but those are the best and more intense fight I have in the game.

PS : And again, sorry for my poor poor english
Thank you very much for your response. Your english is coming along very nicely. I always encourage my guys to say GG at the end of a match whether we have won or lost. I also have offered suggestions to players to help them with their loadout and invited them to our TS for a more detailed explanation on what might help them to improve. I'm sure you want what's best for pvp too and its nice to see another player who understands the answer is not in continuing to bash others but communicate and attempt to change a style of play that has reached this point because at one point or another too many of us have been "cheesed" over the course of this game.

Let no other player discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Though you may walk alone through looming shadows of doubt cast upon you by your enemies. Forge your heart with iron casting its shape out of only your pure will to push forward. You will not be denied eventually.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10
# 46
12-05-2012, 05:13 PM
First, thanks a lot (for the kind things you told on my english skill).

In addition to what you've just said, I think that the main issue with pvp here is the same main issue we encounter more and more every day in any multiplayer game nowdays : todays people can't deal with difficulty.

If we loose = we quite. I see this behaviour almost everywhere now, and I just think that complaining again and again, and then, lefting the match wont help anyone to improve their "skill".

For those of you who complain on Nova Core (or any other big pvp fleet) tactics, try to think : why "cheese" tactics works so hard on you ? How could you protect your ship against that ? How to blow someone who have a god-like shield cap/regen ?

If you could question yourself on that, and re-think your build, you will, stepp by stepp, improve your gameplay and feel again the fun of pvp (the fun never died, you just miss it)

And if you think you've already try what you can, just ask to them (Nova Core, TSI, doesn't really matter) advise, they will always be glade to help you (as they help me in some question I had). But just keep that in mind : TSI, Nova Core etc... have accesse to the exacte same stuff you have, they do not have any "Q Continuum Covariant Shield [Cap]x42 [GodMod]" or "One-Shoot Quad Polarized-Phased-Anti-Proton [Cheat]x3", so, what they can do, you can do too.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,275
# 47
12-05-2012, 06:05 PM
I agree with you 100% Trip. I look forward to speaking with you on the alliance TS. I'm from 32ND Vipers.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 75
# 48 : )
12-05-2012, 06:05 PM
@Pax

You remembered my name I feel so loved. Your just peeved caused I didn't want to join your fleet. It was nothing personal, I just didn't like the logo of TRH, an image bunch of nerdy role players, as a logo in my vids. I'll admit that Task Force Spectre spoiled me, with a nice logo to put on my vids.


@oridjerraa Post#31 @shookyang post #33 @tripwire690 post #37

Well said!!!


@bblbrx post #46

Damn!!! And The truth shall set you free!!! Thank You!!!
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,541
# 49
12-05-2012, 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripwire690 View Post
That's right. Perhaps in your fleet you force people to do what you say. But in Nova Core we don't. Does that mean we don't have ideals? Does that mean we don't have values or principles? We are people too. Both players from S.O.B. and Nova Core have been burned when trying to play it "fair". I don't mean to speak for S.O.B btw. I'm just including them because people trash talk them all the time. I didn't always agree with what they ran in the past either. But their A-team is smart and resourceful. I don't hate. I acknowledge they understand how to use a certain setup to an extreme advantage. If we are going to meet as fleet leaders of multiple fleets and discuss ways we can restrict certain things from use in pvp to improve the overall pvp experience of the community then Nova Core is on board. But we don't dictate to anyone in a public queue they cannot run this or that console because we say so. We can only try and sell them on the idea it devalues the PvP experience as a whole and therefore should understand why it is a bad idea to use this or that thing.
"Force People"? You make it sound like the fleet I belong to are bullies. Where we grumply growl and use harsh language to get our way. We simply have fleet rules, like everyone has their own set of them. One of the Fleet rules is No Universal Grief to win consoles in PVP Ques. The reasons for are also explained as to how we've run into those consoles and feel they are not necessary in order to win, and can eaisly, in the hand of a skilled 5 man team, cause harm to the value of fun during such a match.
How ever, considering the Latest Reign of Season 7, and the continue lack of interest from the Development Staff in PVP, I can't guarentee (since I'm not personally a fleet leader as far as I am aware) what the rest of the fleet does. You want that sort of information, talk with the leaders that still play Startrek Online (if any).

I personally have nothing against fleets and their own set of codes, rules or what not. It also doesn't bother me if one fleet is more strict then another. If I don't agree with their ways I won't join up with them. It's that simple. But what I do have a problem with, is seeming double talk. Where there's a claim of fair play yet only on your terms. Terms that can change on a whim from what I have witnessed. Now I could be wrong.. Which I'll get into later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripwire690 View Post
Then obviously you weren't around when we would get smashed by other fleets running the "cheese". We were one of the first fleets to not run what was broken or use running it as an excuse to flag down a dev. You claim to be against both Nova Core's and S.O.B.'s ideals but it is obvious your words are misinformed and empty. We don't only have pvper's but pver's also in our fleet. We take pride in any way our members choose to show their commitment to the fleet. We have a charter. Mail me in game. I'll invite you to our website. We can have a chill and informed conversation over which I will show you our Charter if you are that interested in learning our "ideals".
My words, dear Tripwire, don't come from a misunerstanding, but from experience of the past. I am against the Ideals of any who feels that using any and every griefable effect in STO PVP does not cause any harm. And is willing to use such grief tactics in order to ruin the fun of anyone else who trys to PVP. I have been in the Queues time and again in the past up until Season 7 where I have run into the Nova Core. And each and every time they ran the consoles that cause the most Grief: Anti-matter spread and Vent Theta Radiation in some form or fashion. In addition to that almost any other console, ship ability, or Lobi store combination they could get their hands on, despite how often the words of "This is an Overpowered, or grief causing effect, it shouldn't be used." gets placed on the forums, in Organized PVP, or any other form of media tied to the PVP in this game. Perhaps one or two individuals may have not used as much of the Griefable aspects of those items, but has been my experience that if you see Nova Core, you can expect such tactics. Same for S.O.B.

How ever, I am not an unfriendly indivudal. Despite the taunts, or other mocking words I may use in general channels during PVP matches, Ker'rat, or Organized PVP. I do enjoy Fair play and a good time in the PVP Ques. IF going to your Team speak, talking with your members, and reading your Charter could bring about some form of enlightnment, I'm sure I could be all for it. Not that I expect a friendly atmosphere towards me while being there, I'd be willing to do that since you offered. Because I have yet to have anyone in Nova Core make such an offer to me in the past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripwire690 View Post
You cannot ensure every player who queues up won't run the "cheese" as much as any othe player can. We can make alliances. We can be friends. We can lead by majority example. But I don't ever recall you asking for our TS info and hopping on our teamspeak to try and discuss the state of pvp and how you'd like to encourage us to take a different approach to the way we pvp. Again. mail me in game. Back your words up. Lets talk and see if we can't come to an agreement instead of you lining up with everyone else and only talking negatively about what very little you know about the players in our guild
Very well, I will mail you, how ever I do not understand how that would be me "Backing up my words." Unless there is something that you got from what I said that you feel I need to prove. Which I couldn't possibly understand what it could be. Because I haven't said that Nova Core is a group full of.. Rude, and unintelegent trolls who resort to grief tactics to win, for example.. And nor have I here in this statement as such that was an example, not me stating a fact or even an opinion, because it would be false. I'm afraid how ever I do not recall your @ handle in order to do so, so if you would be so kind as to provide it (Incase you haven't already and I've just missed it while scrolling through most of the previous responses) I will be sure to respond soon.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,761
# 50
12-05-2012, 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfloresii View Post
@Pax

You remembered my name I feel so loved. Your just peeved caused I didn't want to join your fleet. It was nothing personal, I just didn't like the logo of TRH, an image bunch of nerdy role players, as a logo in my vids.
I'm sure TRH needed a failtastic carebear who runs awful and selfish builds in their fleet.


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