Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,337
# 21
12-07-2012, 12:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thishorizon View Post
yes mimey. you have the thought there. or the spirit at the very least.

since the game, and the systems and mechanics keep us from policing each other, it would be great, for gaming's sake....to just humble ourselves, in spite of what we could do, to just come to agreement... when q'ing up together, as a team...or 1v1...just to give ourselves this minor limitation.

this will bring the player himself/herself to the fore front of the match. instead of just.....well, using the ample weapons at hand to just utterly void piloting, and play style, or in your example....

if the USA really wanted to win any war, we would just incendiary carpet bomb whoever into oblivion....like.... we did to Japan. i think as human beings we have moved past that. neglecting any humanity to win at all costs.

THIS IS STAR TREK!

we are here because we hold very similar values in the future of humanity.... and well, gaming... and there are star ships!

i have dedicated my professional life to exemplify this thought process. and i just can't see past my own personal experiences, with all involved in this game, that we cannot achieve this. in some, silly, minute manor.

have fun.......kill bad guys
Thank you, if it's alright, I will continue my analogy/comparison.


This is all still as I put in my earlier post, and in many ways, you PvP fleets agreeing to this, are much like those treaties as again, shown before.

However, just be careful of one thing, this could also be considered a means to other fleets as showing the 'haves', you all here, to hurt the 'have nots'.

The 'haves' in this case being PvPers and various super-powerful things (SNB DOFFs are a good example). The 'have nots' being newer or less rich PvPers (or even non-PvPers), who do not own the super-powerful things.

It could potentially be seen, should others learn of this, that in a way, this is to say, 'we, the major PvPing fleets have all agreed upon that certain things are never to be used, but we aren't getting rid of them, we just won't use them, and help curb the use of anyone else using them as well.'

Perhaps it'd be an extreme case, but don't you all think that maybe, just maybe, someone could get the wrong idea? Think if you were looking at this (as I generally am) from the outside. What if you were looking at PvPing, and heard about how all these big PvPers were basically saying 'well we aren't gonna use these, and neither should you'; sure no one can police it, but it's not like people wouldn't be worried about getting flamed even under the suspicion of doing something.

Or they'd get mad, and basically give a big middle space-finger to the 'rules' and do whatever they want anyways, because why should some other people decide what's right and what's wrong? Especially since they, the person who's mad in the first place, never agreed to such a thing to begin with.

Now again, this is just the extreme end possibly, but something worth bringing up, because some countries in the world, DO feel that way when it comes to how more powerful countries treat the possession of nuclear weapons.

I'll use myself as an example:

I bought 3 SNB DOFFs off the exchange the other day. So, does that automatically make me 'bad' to own them? I suppose it makes me a 'nuclear power' in that I DO own them, true. Can anyone here stop me from using them potentially in the queues?* Not really.

*And before anyone does jump down my damn throat about it, I'm not gonna use em anyways.

Also, let's not forget there will always BE something. If not SNB DOFFs, than Tric mines. If not trics, then the Breen Energy weapon (to be decided of course). If not that, then something else. There will always be something, just be wary of that, and try not to jump on things too quickly to declare them over powered.



I have a question now:

Could you all, with absolute, and complete, 100% truth, tell me that if asked, would delete your SNB DOFFs, along with every other 'forbidden' item in PvP, forever?

I know everyone is ok to not use them, but deleting them for good is a different story. It's much like nukes in the real world, easy to say 'ok, let's NOT blow ourselves to kingdom come', but very difficult to agree to 'I need to get rid of these? You still have some though, get rid of them as well. If you do, I will too.'

I don't doubt that many of you here, who would agree to this accord, would though. At least...at first. You trust yourself, and I can probably guess right in that you trust your fleet mates. But do you trust each other? I don't think there completely would be.

I don't mean that as an insult at all, just a bit I'd noticed. I think there would be at least a tiny bit of doubt in any of your minds that 'if mine are gone for good...then I can't counter someone else using them'...

...and then we're right back where we began.

Truly it's a nasty circle. Just as nukes are so difficult to let go out in the real world, so can some of the things that we have here, be as well.

Again, none of this is meant to be insulting, mean, trolling, flaming, or anything else, just what I see as an 'outsider looking in' to all this.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,062
# 22
12-07-2012, 04:02 AM
mimey, i think deleting or not using anything in the game is walking a path that will keep people away from agreeing on anything.

you go ahead, and use your snb doffs. i aim not to take anything away from anyone. but as i've stated in the accords, some one will notice you stripping their buffs.... and that will put your own future competitive game play at risk.

i would suggest being open about what you are running. be transparent. only 1v1 others with snb doffs, maybe take them completely off when you face an unexperienced pug. or, keep them on there when you notice a few good pilots on the other end. you will most likely only have to remember a few dozen names.

i, myself have attack pattern doffs, giving me 100% uptime on attack patterns....pretty sick right. and im not giving them up. they are great, and ive adapted my playstyle to them.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 727
# 23
12-07-2012, 04:10 AM
ogh >< i wants apdoffs so much ec O.O"
<a href=http://tinyurl.com/msywqm5 target=_blank>http://tinyurl.com/msywqm5</a>
Chillax. No Ego. No Drama.

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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,062
# 24
12-07-2012, 04:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by talzerotwo View Post
ogh >< i wants apdoffs so much ec O.O"
tal,

it took me 6 weeks to grind for them.

i PVE'd.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 727
# 25
12-07-2012, 04:16 AM
Well... then.. what have you done for me lately? Grind me some five dollah.

Also you spoke of moderation in the initial post, why not simply make it a rule of thumb where only one zstore/or other 'special console' thats not considered 'standard' be allowed on any fleet premade (or a 5 man team of people in the same fleet, not just premades) its not necessarily the console itself, but the number of the same ones methinks. almost like sci abilities used to be (ex. one person using ss3 vs team of ss3). dunno really, just tossing ideas out there for the brainstorming. got my support as always

edit: my line of thought got greyed when i started involving "what about about 5 copies of sci team?" so I edited all that out, time for sleep, but I look forward to where this thread will go tomorrow
<a href=http://tinyurl.com/msywqm5 target=_blank>http://tinyurl.com/msywqm5</a>
Chillax. No Ego. No Drama.

Like my alien? Watch THE VIDEO
Need custom graphics for you or your fleet? Click HERE

Last edited by talzerotwo; 12-07-2012 at 04:24 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,062
# 26
12-07-2012, 04:23 AM
thanks buddy. always great to team with and hear from you.

i was thinking in regards to passive consoles too. so.... maybe if i wanted to run the tachyo converter thingie, i would have to choose between the borg console and the rommie console.

therefore, in a way, moderating my critical chance hax! (because we all know 10%.....may.....be.....a....little.....excessive.. ...) lol !!!!

so is being hit by 4 straight grav pulses, or stacked thetas.....
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,337
# 27
12-07-2012, 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thishorizon View Post
mimey, i think deleting or not using anything in the game is walking a path that will keep people away from agreeing on anything.

you go ahead, and use your snb doffs. i aim not to take anything away from anyone. but as i've stated in the accords, some one will notice you stripping their buffs.... and that will put your own future competitive game play at risk.

i would suggest being open about what you are running. be transparent. only 1v1 others with snb doffs, maybe take them completely off when you face an unexperienced pug. or, keep them on there when you notice a few good pilots on the other end. you will most likely only have to remember a few dozen names.

i, myself have attack pattern doffs, giving me 100% uptime on attack patterns....pretty sick right. and im not giving them up. they are great, and ive adapted my playstyle to them.
True indeed, but that was more a rhetorical question than anything else. It was more meant for you to ask it to yourself if you really would do it.

I said in my previous post, I wasn't going to use them in the first place...well, not use them in PvP that is. I have more important space DOFFs that I use on the character I bought them on. So there's no need to worry or fuss about that from me.

Attack Pattern DOFFs, eh? I know how good they can be, to always have Omega 3 up, along with the others. But it's easy to give up one thing, but not another. You say they are part of your play style, and that's perfectly ok. I'm just bringing up the point that 'that's not ok, but what I do is ok', or that's how it seems to look to me.



Now don't misunderstand all this, I do like this whole idea you have here Horizon, I'm just keeping a seperate, 'outsiders' view on this whole thing.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,062
# 28
12-07-2012, 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
True indeed, but that was more a rhetorical question than anything else. It was more meant for you to ask it to yourself if you really would do it.

I said in my previous post, I wasn't going to use them in the first place...well, not use them in PvP that is. I have more important space DOFFs that I use on the character I bought them on. So there's no need to worry or fuss about that from me.

Attack Pattern DOFFs, eh? I know how good they can be, to always have Omega 3 up, along with the others. But it's easy to give up one thing, but not another. You say they are part of your play style, and that's perfectly ok. I'm just bringing up the point that 'that's not ok, but what I do is ok', or that's how it seems to look to me.



Now don't misunderstand all this, I do like this whole idea you have here Horizon, I'm just keeping a seperate, 'outsiders' view on this whole thing.
mimey, i love your contributions to the thread, thank you!

but thats what i am trying to do, take away the "i like this and not that" stuff that divides us all.

if everything is okay, but in moderation....then, everyone respects one another.... so much more good game play will start to happen!

.....or at least, thats what i hope.

a year ago there were 3-5 great fleets battling it out daily. we don't have close to that now.

i encourage you to get on to Pax's teamspeak sometime tonight. i will be on sometime around 9ish EST. they are all great guys. and they already fly this way. because maxing your build and focusing on timing and piloting is the most rewarding part of PVP!

have fun kill bad guys
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 197
# 29
12-07-2012, 10:45 AM
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=477071

Edit:
I decided to start another thread instead of detailing this one

Last edited by upyournacelles2; 12-07-2012 at 10:49 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,337
# 30
12-07-2012, 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thishorizon View Post
mimey, i love your contributions to the thread, thank you!

but thats what i am trying to do, take away the "i like this and not that" stuff that divides us all.

if everything is okay, but in moderation....then, everyone respects one another.... so much more good game play will start to happen!

.....or at least, thats what i hope.

a year ago there were 3-5 great fleets battling it out daily. we don't have close to that now.

i encourage you to get on to Pax's teamspeak sometime tonight. i will be on sometime around 9ish EST. they are all great guys. and they already fly this way. because maxing your build and focusing on timing and piloting is the most rewarding part of PVP!

have fun kill bad guys
You're welcome, apologies on not seeing this earlier, or else I might've done so.

Moderation is good. We still have nukes in the world, and still could use them, but far far fewer than in the past.

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