Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 294
# 11
12-09-2012, 06:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dariusmajere View Post
I know Freespace Very well, I have done minor Modding on it. I know many Open-source Games available that have Wicked good Graphics, You know the Difference between Open-Source and Publisher/Developer Based. Someone Already did the hard work for you and Created the Game, Created the mechanics and the Code. A Developer Already did the hard Work for hard-light. Interplay has been Doing games for years. How long did it take them to create Freespace? Hell, Let's go back to the Days of Descent, Descent 2, and the horrible Descent 3. It's Easy to Mod a Game, I did it on duke 3d, all the doom maps, Wolfenstien maps. Hell I have even done Modding on the New RAGE Engine. It's Easy to Mod, It's not easy to create and install new Technologies. A lot of the issues we have is due to new technologies being introduce into the Game. Another Difference In Open-Source Games is the Entire Community Get Involved. Everyone has access to the Code, Everyone can change edit and submit Code. On a Single Player Game, this is Safe and Easy to do, Especially once the game and company went bye bye and got swallowed up. Cryptic Is still in Business, If they opened there code up to the World it would be Suicide for them. It's easy for a community of hundreds to work on a game, but if you have 20 people dealing with thousands, ontop of having to make it work with EVERYONES systems and everyones different modifications. Freespace had Standard Models to use, there was no specialty, You did not have to worry a bout X player did this Design and is now being attacked by Y player.. Explosions don't appear on y players custom Ship. X players unchanged ship works perfect. Multiplayer Games are an Entirely Different Breed then Single Players games.
Look how many people try to do open-source MMO's, Not many full blown designed ones out there.. Profit has to be maintained and bringing in money is the main goal. Open-source games Do not have to pay for Server load, Technicians on staff, Thats all Free by the community. You want to bring the Hundreds of STO players to work on STO for Free. Pay for STO's Server Farms while increasing Cryptics Net profitability. I am SURE the Devs would not Mind hundreds of players to help as long as it maintained them making profit.
So basically you're saying because craptic is in business and STO isn't open source, we should be okay with mediocrity? I'm not. I'm whole heartedly against this idea that because there is money involved, we should just be okay with it.

Furthermore, this game uses direct-x technologies. The "compatibility" with peoples systems went out the window years ago when this was introduced. Direct-X is, for all intents and purposes, a middle man between the game and the drivers for your hardware. The game interfaces with direct-x, direct-x interfaces with your sound card/video card, etc etc. Case in point, the problem that some people are having with intel video cards right now, driver problem, nothing in the game causing it. So... try again on that.

It seems like you're missing my point here entirely, so I'll try this again. Craptic has had the code for STO for years now, as you have pointed out. At this point, there's no excuse for them to still be scratching their heads over how it works. And when they release a patch and it introduces a slew of new bugs, why does it take months to never for them to get a fix out? On content, I still can't wrap my brain around why they would release anything that's unfinished, and then follow up with something else unfinished? This trend continues for months, years even... so yes, its deservedly called "half assed". Additionally, I have done bug reports, both in the forum and through their ticketing system.... still waiting for them to be fixed, as have many people. The lucky few that got answers, well grats, I guess cryptic was feeling magnanimous that day.

All in all, I'm very displeased by the lack caring and attention these buffoons have given this game while at the same time, like you said, people are still throwing money into zen to sell. All of that tells me they don't give a damn, they just want our money and could care less if this is freakin Andy Griffith online or Star Trek Online.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 352
# 12
12-09-2012, 06:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darimund View Post
So basically you're saying because craptic is in business and STO isn't open source, we should be okay with mediocrity? I'm not. I'm whole heartedly against this idea that because there is money involved, we should just be okay with it.

Furthermore, this game uses direct-x technologies. The "compatibility" with peoples systems went out the window years ago when this was introduced. Direct-X is, for all intents and purposes, a middle man between the game and the drivers for your hardware. The game interfaces with direct-x, direct-x interfaces with your sound card/video card, etc etc. Case in point, the problem that some people are having with intel video cards right now, driver problem, nothing in the game causing it. So... try again on that.

It seems like you're missing my point here entirely, so I'll try this again. Craptic has had the code for STO for years now, as you have pointed out. At this point, there's no excuse for them to still be scratching their heads over how it works. And when they release a patch and it introduces a slew of new bugs, why does it take months to never for them to get a fix out? On content, I still can't wrap my brain around why they would release anything that's unfinished, and then follow up with something else unfinished? This trend continues for months, years even... so yes, its deservedly called "half assed". Additionally, I have done bug reports, both in the forum and through their ticketing system.... still waiting for them to be fixed, as have many people. The lucky few that got answers, well grats, I guess cryptic was feeling magnanimous that day.

All in all, I'm very displeased by the lack caring and attention these buffoons have given this game while at the same time, like you said, people are still throwing money into zen to sell. All of that tells me they don't give a damn, they just want our money and could care less if this is freakin Andy Griffith online or Star Trek Online.
What it means is people are HAPPY with the game that they continue to put money into it. Yes the game has bugs and if you read the patch notes you see they get worked on weekly.
Content is the lifeblood of a Game. With no content coming out, A game dies because the player base Leaves. You have to Split your time between Content and working on bugs, About 80/20 or even 75/25. Content Taking priority Because that brings the players in. ALL MMO games Do it. World Of ******** is bug filled. Hell in the first couple of years it was Absolutely Horrible coming from a MAssively Rich Developer as Blizzard. LOTRO same Issue, EVE online 18th Expansion Only Now Really the last few Expansions Fixing Bugs.. It's been going since 2003.. It has finally fixed a few of its First bugs. This is the way of the MMO. It is not a single player Game.
As for Direct X. Even With Direct X you need to make sure it works on Multiple Systems. From Windows XP to Windows 8, Just because it is Direct X and not sure if you ever Designed something for it, Does not Mean it works across the board. It helps But it's not Fail proof. This being Seen in Many MMO's who released Content and some systems It boots on and some it does not. Hell Season 7 for STO had that Issue, Some systems could Get in, Some could not. I myself was locked out till a new patch came out. If you could find me a Bug Proof MMO I would LOVE to see it. Hell I would love to take a Crack at it and See how quickly I could figure out Exploits and ways to Crash it.
For 20 years in MMO History with this Game Being the "Worst" in its Time, It makes me semi amused to wonder exactly What have you been Playing? Ultima Online?Shaiya? Guild wars? ********* if you played that horrible Game I shall laugh. Conquer Online? Was not Many Massive Multiple Online Games in the 90's that met the Classification of Massive Multiplayer. Alot of Train Wrecks in the past and Very Few MMO's Prior to the Success of WOW.
Proud Fleet Commander in Garfon's Renegades!
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
http://massivechaos.enjin.com/
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 366
# 13
12-09-2012, 06:48 AM
Cryptic didn't get any code from Perpetual Entertainment IIRC. In fact all as they had was some art and mock up code, Cryptic had to make STO from scratch in the Cryptic Engine.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 14
12-09-2012, 07:11 AM
Quote:
Not sure how many mmo's you have been in, but for going on its 3rd year for a game that got dropped on there lap and being converted onto there engine slowly, they are not doing bad.
Now, the poor lad is having a good vent. No need to try and be sensible at him. Let him have a nap and he should be good to go.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 294
# 15
12-09-2012, 07:12 AM
I never said I expected perfection out of craptic, in fact I distinctly recall saying I'm not expecting perfection. Bugs are a fact of life, I get that, but the sheer volume and the fact that they don't get fixed begs the question, why? The only answer I can come up with is they don't care. I challenge craptic to prove me wrong on that.

I really don't think people are that happy with the game in general. People play it because its star trek. PWE is playing psychological games with the players to get them to spend stupid amounts of money to get the best gear or to feed their star base projects etc etc. Hey, if that's all it was, good on PWE for being able to rip folks off for intangible goods. That's every capitalists dream. However, that isn't all there is to what's going on around here.

It's been stated many times on these forums that the number of people that are unsatisfied with PWE and craptic far outnumber the number of people that are willing to defend them. I'm not trying to turn this into a fan boi vs hater debate, my point is craptic dangles out new shinnies every couple of months to divert your attention from the previous heap of trash that came our way previously. You get your new shinnies and then its... heyyyyy, something's wrong here... and then the next batch of new shinnies is already on the way. You bought into that, hey well, i'm not here to change your mind. That's your deal.

Anyway, I do retract what I said about the 20 years of MMO's, apparently math isn't my strong suit either, my first MMO was EverQuest and I started playing that roughly a month after it was released so ya since April of 99. I'm not going to get in a list of all of the games I've played, I don't want to get into a X game vs STO debate. Don't care how ****ty/great wow was, etc. What I will say is that at the very least, the companies behind the MMO's that I played at least pretended like they gave a rats ass about their product. And while not every game I played since it was launched, I could reasonably say that there was far more quality in their work, not to mention the DEVS LISTENED TO THE PLAYERS.

If there's any 1 complaint I see on this forum more than anything is a lack of response to the players. I don't mean overlord Stahl picking questions out of a pile that he wants to answer once a month. I mean actual interaction from the devs at the very least saying they're working to fix a problem, or hey, I like that idea, ima see if we can get it in the game or something close to it. Yes, I see the dev tracker, but most of that is bran doing PR or just general chit chat. While some of that is cool and all, ultimately, it does leave some players disheartened that their pleas go unanswered. It all takes me back to "they don't care".
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,880
# 16
12-09-2012, 07:25 AM
you want to see someone defend Cryptic and their bug fixing efforts? Ok.

Go to Carraya and tell me whether or not you see this: http://marhawkman.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d5jks3h

That bug never made it to the live server because I reported it during the tribble testing and it got fixed. That was an easy bug though, all they had to do was edit the backdrop of the map.

So yes, there you have proof that cryptic really does at least try to fix bugs.
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 352
# 17
12-09-2012, 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darimund View Post
I never said I expected perfection out of craptic, in fact I distinctly recall saying I'm not expecting perfection. Bugs are a fact of life, I get that, but the sheer volume and the fact that they don't get fixed begs the question, why? The only answer I can come up with is they don't care. I challenge craptic to prove me wrong on that.

I really don't think people are that happy with the game in general. People play it because its star trek. PWE is playing psychological games with the players to get them to spend stupid amounts of money to get the best gear or to feed their star base projects etc etc. Hey, if that's all it was, good on PWE for being able to rip folks off for intangible goods. That's every capitalists dream. However, that isn't all there is to what's going on around here.

It's been stated many times on these forums that the number of people that are unsatisfied with PWE and craptic far outnumber the number of people that are willing to defend them. I'm not trying to turn this into a fan boi vs hater debate, my point is craptic dangles out new shinnies every couple of months to divert your attention from the previous heap of trash that came our way previously. You get your new shinnies and then its... heyyyyy, something's wrong here... and then the next batch of new shinnies is already on the way. You bought into that, hey well, i'm not here to change your mind. That's your deal.

Anyway, I do retract what I said about the 20 years of MMO's, apparently math isn't my strong suit either, my first MMO was EverQuest and I started playing that roughly a month after it was released so ya since April of 99. I'm not going to get in a list of all of the games I've played, I don't want to get into a X game vs STO debate. Don't care how ****ty/great wow was, etc. What I will say is that at the very least, the companies behind the MMO's that I played at least pretended like they gave a rats ass about their product. And while not every game I played since it was launched, I could reasonably say that there was far more quality in their work, not to mention the DEVS LISTENED TO THE PLAYERS.

If there's any 1 complaint I see on this forum more than anything is a lack of response to the players. I don't mean overlord Stahl picking questions out of a pile that he wants to answer once a month. I mean actual interaction from the devs at the very least saying they're working to fix a problem, or hey, I like that idea, ima see if we can get it in the game or something close to it. Yes, I see the dev tracker, but most of that is bran doing PR or just general chit chat. While some of that is cool and all, ultimately, it does leave some players disheartened that their pleas go unanswered. It all takes me back to "they don't care".
I can honestly Say I see and Talk to Devs alot. They frequent the Test Server Channel not the normal Ones. There may not be alot on the forums supporting Cryptic, But there also are NOT ALOT of the forums HAting on Cryptic, yes theres more hate then Praise. But You can NAME everyone of us on the forums EASILY. We are that few compared to the actual population and thats how it typically Is. But When the bulk of the players complained about DILithium in the Rep system, Look how quick it got added. Was next Patch pretty much. When the Mass of the Players Speak they Move. When the Minority of us Gripe, they do not. Majority Talks, Minority Walks is how it Always is in a MMO. Bulk complaints Are dealt with Over the small ones. If the Glitch is considered Major, It gets Delt with. If its not a Game Breaking issue its put on the large Minor issue pile. Join The Tribble Server if you want to talk to Devs. Not just during "Test Events" but Normally on it. Get involved on the Tribble Forum. The Devs only Get involved in Major Issues and Major issues Take priority over Minor Ones. Honestly. I do Not see A Massive amount of major Game breaking Bugs that would piss me off and I am autistic I am Very Detail orientated. Minor Ones yes, Gods thre are tons. I report them as needed, But unless they are Game Breaking the Devs have better things to do like work on The next Expansion. No matter what people will find fault in the games, No one will ever be happy. For every One Issue they fix Ten more will piss and moan about it. Tribble Forums Will Easily Point that out.
Klingon Players will never be enough, they could Out of no where Hot Drop a Complete level package for level 1-21 and the KDF would not be happy they would just switch to something Else to Piss and Moan About. They could fix all your patches in an emergency patch today, You yourself would say thanks and be on in an hour with a whole list of new issues. That is the MMO Cycle. If you check my Raptr or Xfire Page under shadowmajere, you will see how many Games for the most part when I have it running I have torn threw. That is just when I remember to have it running. I am an Avid member of MMOrpg.com I get in every Beta test out there and help bug Chase on Multiple Games. Deeming Star Trek The Worst, shows me you have not been around the block. Going by others Responses on the thread. Not many people Arguing for your side. If you want to See and Be involved with Devs, Get on Tribble. Does everything get posted there, No. They keep Secrets to suprise us. Will Alot of ships Get fancy Bridges, No. Not a lot of people go onto there bridges so its not a money maker for them to design it. Ship skins and Bridges made no money which is why some got pulled from the Zen Store. As the Famous Line is " Money Talks, BS walks" Cryptic is a FOR-Profit Company. Content is based upon Players Demands in the Majority and where the profit will be made. If only a Small Minority Complain, then you are NOT the top priority until you gather the villagers in mass. If the game has say 50,000 players ( doubt it) and only 20-100 are on the forums complaining, that means a massive majority are not showing they have issues.
Proud Fleet Commander in Garfon's Renegades!
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
http://massivechaos.enjin.com/
Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 294
# 18
12-09-2012, 07:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
you want to see someone defend Cryptic and their bug fixing efforts? Ok.

Go to Carraya and tell me whether or not you see this: http://marhawkman.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d5jks3h

That bug never made it to the live server because I reported it during the tribble testing and it got fixed. That was an easy bug though, all they had to do was edit the backdrop of the map.

So yes, there you have proof that cryptic really does at least try to fix bugs.
I'm glad that one got fixed. However, their efforts hardly seem adequate. Here we are almost a month now after s7 launched, the thread on borg one shotting folks in estf continues... how about the exploit in the winter event? Id almost bet money that one doesn't get fixed because it wont be around after a month. How about the omega engine not reducing the cool down on transwarp? the list can get pretty long if we're gonna say what they fixed vs what they haven't. I admitted as much that they do fix some bugs, but the vast majority of them, they don't fix, and they barely comment on them one way or another.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 352
# 19
12-09-2012, 07:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darimund View Post
I'm glad that one got fixed. However, their efforts hardly seem adequate. Here we are almost a month now after s7 launched, the thread on borg one shotting folks in estf continues... how about the exploit in the winter event? Id almost bet money that one doesn't get fixed because it wont be around after a month. How about the omega engine not reducing the cool down on transwarp? the list can get pretty long if we're gonna say what they fixed vs what they haven't. I admitted as much that they do fix some bugs, but the vast majority of them, they don't fix, and they barely comment on them one way or another.
Well Sir, the DEV's Already had Responded multiple Times to the BORG thread. The Winter Racing Exploit is getting Fixed Thursday's patch If you follow the Star Trek blasts on Twitter (another way Devs release information) Brandon Felczer ‏@PWE_BranFlakes
@ShadowMajere that shortcut won't exist after the next patch
Actually there is some nice stuff already post to Tribble due to player Requests. I will be Able to get my Fed chars the Batleth and some other changes as well. Oh and if you check the notes, you will *GASP* See DEVS! Talking to the players! Like OMG!
Proud Fleet Commander in Garfon's Renegades!
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
http://massivechaos.enjin.com/
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 778
# 20
12-09-2012, 08:03 AM
I agree they tend to rush stiuff all the time ship are the biggest thing
I have having fleet quantum torpeadoes can't see half the time
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