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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 47
# 11
12-09-2012, 09:50 AM
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek

Last edited by bluegeek; 12-11-2012 at 11:33 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 414
# 12
12-09-2012, 10:20 AM
I cashed in dil from 5 toons to get the Bortas'puke 3 pack for my KDF eng. I still maintain it was the worst choice I've ever made in this game. The damnable thing is so slow it can't even get out of it's own way.Marginally useful in PvE, crap in PvP, and as maneuverable as a freight train. Ended up going back to my Vor'cha Retro.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,474
# 13
12-09-2012, 11:17 AM
I don't blame the players for failing to buy the Bortasqu. They made a ship that doesn't match the design ethos or performance level of other ships that KDF players could get instead, so why WOULD anybody buy it? It's a giant whale, and it's not even as efficient at whaling along as the Odyssey. I looked at Bortasqu and decided against it since I already have the Negh'var and Vor'cha, which are what KDF cruisers ought to be.

In an ideal world they would make minor tweaks to the Bortasqu so that players will buy it, so they don't have to write off all the cost of developing its code and artwork. In a less ideal world they should take to heart the fact that KDF players are desperate for new ships but they will only buy new ships if they have solid features and fit into the performance continuity of other KDF ships.

Though, it's not the last thing that KDF got. They've gotten the temporal science ship, temporal destroyer, and the 1000-day heavy destroyer. Bortasqu is the last Z-store ship true, but let's not be completely hysterical here.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 980
# 14
12-09-2012, 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by benj2293 View Post
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek
lol. ive got every kdf ship and it has to be my number 1 worst ship off all time.

also got all the lock box ships so when i say its the worst ship in the game i know what im talk bout. the thing flies liuke a bus with wings

have at it sir grammer the hell outa this.

Last edited by bluegeek; 12-11-2012 at 11:33 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,798
# 15
12-09-2012, 12:49 PM
Once you've been in STO long enough you know that most of what comes out of the Cryptic Rumor mill is nothing but rumors and thats the best way to call it. I doubt they lost any money on the KDF what it really is... is they aren't making the same thing off the KDF that they do off the feds so to them that is losing money in their minds. It's like me putting a beat up rusty pinto on a car lot and telling you I'm not going to do anything to it and if you want it you can buy it but it will be the last thing I ever put out and that is the KDF.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,045
# 16
12-09-2012, 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeuxidemus001 View Post
Once you've been in STO long enough you know that most of what comes out of the Cryptic Rumor mill is nothing but rumors and thats the best way to call it. I doubt they lost any money on the KDF what it really is... is they aren't making the same thing off the KDF that they do off the feds so to them that is losing money in their minds. It's like me putting a beat up rusty pinto on a car lot and telling you I'm not going to do anything to it and if you want it you can buy it but it will be the last thing I ever put out and that is the KDF.
I agree.
It's also pretty convenient that they first tell us they want to develop the KDF further...only to then, for the first time, tell us they lost money on some ships (whatever that means).
At least to me this feels like, if this is true, they deliberately kept this info until now so they have an appearently legitimate reason why it's not really profitable to invest into the KDF.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,785
# 17
12-09-2012, 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by benj2293 View Post
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek
So, I take it you're a fed player?

The point of my original post, is that it did poorly because it's designed to the wrong kind of spec for KDF play.

Put the same handling specs on a ship with a big round saucer and two (or four) Nacelles with a "U.S.S." prefix, and it would do fine on the targeted market of FEDERATION players.

but the design runs pretty much counter to KDF style play-the only other ship in the Klingon inventory that handles nearly as poorly is the Vo'Quv, which makes up for it with hangar pets.

The reason I used car analogies, is that the problem IS the Detroit problem-specifically the "Detroit in the seventies" problem-if you're a car company, and you ignore your car buying market, putting spoilers on a land-yacht doesn't make it a muscle car, and you're not going to be fooling anyone.

If Cryptic would BUILD a C-store shop for the KDF, following the aesthetic of the ships that people are levelling with, using, favouring and building, it would sell-they sold a crapload of lifetimer subs with the Pegh'u (sp?), and tonnes of lockboxes for the Temporal ships, and you're still more likely to see either of those in PvP, fleetmark missions, or SUCCESSFUL STF runs, than you will the thinly-disguised-whale Bortasque.

Handling and manuever are major points for the KDF faction-the faction whose senior members started in an era where they ONLY had PvP, and whose junior members start their toons with..what?? oh, yeah, the bird of prey-a ship that is nothing BUT handling.

as Klingons level, unlike their fed counterparts, even on cruisers, they have handling and manuever as core elements of their ships, and it shows in the outcomes of PvP matches and STF runs-ships like the Vor'cha-R and Tor'Kaht have nearly-legendary status for their success rates, and the Fed-Threads periodically fill with indignant ******** because KDF cruisers can bring cannons to bear often enough to dust 'superior' Fed vessels...

and then, we have the Bortasque, which is the only cruiser in the KDF arsenal that can be one-on-one owned by what is reputed to be the worst Fed cruiser in the game (The Galaxy-X, aka "Failaxy"...) a ship that sits a tier lower and costs a LOT less to buy.

when you build and offer a good ship, PEOPLE WILL BUY IT-look at how many lockboxes it takes to get a Jem Bugship, or Galor, (the price to get the box opened by SOMEONE still runs into the triple digits thanks to the way random odds work), the number of Temporal Destroyers, Mirror Qins, and "Lifetimer" (1000 day) ships out there, then look at how many of the Bortasque did NOT sell.

A few people bought it, and I think you're the first poster to declare your liking it, makes you part of a minority-within-a-minority (or too proud to admit you wasted that fifty dollars).

the problem comes down to violating the performance asthetic. The Bort's got this awesome map for a bridge-it's bigger than some people's starbases, (and that's JUST THE BRIDGE AREA) but it, frankly, does not perform up to the standard that a Negh'var, Vorcha, Vor'cha R, K'Tinga, Tor'Kaht, etc. perform. The performance just isn't there, the parts are incompatible with any other KDF design, the few advantages are countered by structural disadvantages mostly due to the poor handling and some issues with buggy code.

Kind of like how certain mid-seventies cars had great big engines, no power or handling, sludgy braking and frequent mechanical issues, and detroit sticking spoilers and custom paint on them wasn't enough, so too, the Bortasque just...fails. Word in a community as small as the KDF gets around fast-"This ship is a dog" has crossed all the sectors by the time a player like you whom doesn't dislike a turn rate in single digits has gotten up for breakfast.

If Cryptic WANTED to sell C-store KDF ships, they'd design...good c-store KDF ships. which is to say, ships that are not thinly disguised and nerve-deadened versions of Federation ships.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

Last edited by bluegeek; 12-11-2012 at 11:33 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 249
# 18
12-09-2012, 01:18 PM
Do we even know it's the Bortas on which they lost money ? I have no idea, but I know that at least some people fly the barn door and like it.

As for myself: I don't fly anything that doesn't have a decent turnrate. Therefore I never even considered it. Plus: it is damn fugly.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,785
# 19
12-09-2012, 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aurigas7 View Post
Do we even know it's the Bortas on which they lost money ? I have no idea, but I know that at least some people fly the barn door and like it.

As for myself: I don't fly anything that doesn't have a decent turnrate. Therefore I never even considered it. Plus: it is damn fugly.
wellp..the statement was made AFTER the release of the Bortasque'/Oddyssey packs, and they stopped making C-Store KDF ships at about that time, as I said in my original post, it's an unscientific hypothesis (meaning I can't test it and I admit to not having the full data to build a proper Hypothesis, much less theory), but if I were a gambler, I'd have to say I'd put my money on the idea that it was a money-loser, and possibly THE money-loser, being as it's also the FIRST C-store ship released AFTER the PWE buyout.

i.e. based on timing of the release and performance of the product, which I personally got a taste of in Tribble testing.

and as I mentioned before-them what "LIKES" the Bortasque are a minority-within-a-minority, that is, most KDF players are more akin to YOUR choices, than an expressed admiration for slow-turning brickships/spacewhales. Those that like spacewhales generally stay Fed, or return to Fed in short order-they don't stick around as KDF long enough, in MOST CASES, to be able to unlock the Bortasque, much less buy one.

it's kind of the question of what constitutes a true "Endgame quality" of ship design, and the criteria ARE different between Fed, and KDF, at least on the Cruiser front. The Bort suffers from being designed to FED specs, and likely isn't something a KDF player who plays for the 'feel' of the ships and systems would be willing (eager) to spend money on.


Ships of cruiser class the KDF ARE willing/Eager to spend money on tend to have certain prime similarities:

1)Turn rates-Klinks as a community like fast turn rates, good braking, and good accelleration. Kar'Fi, Orion Corsairs, Vor'cha, Negh'var, and Tor'Kaht dominate the listing of cruisers of "endgame quality" you tend to see over Qo'Nos or at Gonalda, Drozana, DS9 or anywhere else Klinks gather.

2)"Tricky" console customization. Plas Leech consoles end up on a LOT of Klink crusers, as do other "Lower tier" console rigs from C-store purchases of lower-tier ships. (the quaddies from the Ning'tao tend to follow a Klink from that design to a cruiser, Raptor, or other Bird of Prey until they change their chosen weapons energy to something else), a check of "Pay to win" consoles on the PvP forums shows that SOMEONE was using Plas leech, but you really don't see a lot of fish-ships at top tiers unless they're the Fleet version, which does not come with it, ditto for the Gorny Sci ships-they're rare, but their consoles are fairly common. These parts often end up on "Free" ships or Dil-store ships.

3)the ability to USE the cannons you're mounting, which is tightly tied to item 1. High DPS means zilch if you can't bring the muzzle to bear on the target. This was actually acknowledged in the community as one of the basic flaws of the Qin Raptor's 'pivot'-a high turn rate, but difficult to get guns-on -target because of where the pivot point is in relation to the nose.

Notably, I don't see a lot Qin raptors at Ker'rat and often don't see them in PvP ques either-and only rarely in STF's, even compared to designs of greater rarity such as the 1000 day vet ships, lockbox specials, etc...but I see them FAR more often than I do Borts.

Lesson being, KDF players as a GROUP, with FEW exceptions, want ships with good turn rates, that can bring weapons to bear quickly and hold a target that's trying to evade them in that arc of fire. Not so much the "Sit and take fire" type of play, we're aggressive players, not passive.

the tactile and tactical problem of the Bortas, is that it's NOT an aggressive design, no matter how many tac consoles you stuff on it, it's a passive ship, with poor handling, whose main gun has a narrow arc of effectivity and a long cooldown-making a poor combination in PvP or most PvE play.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,474
# 20
12-09-2012, 02:02 PM
Just daydreaming.

Turn rate: 5.5 => 8.0

Hull strength: -10%

All variants: Disruptor Autocannon. Unique front weapon. Effectively a single cannon (180 degrees) with reduced damage falloff, large accuracy bonus (faster than standard muzzle velocity) and a slightly boosted basic rate of fire.

Tactical Bortasqu: Tactical EPS Reroute console. For 15 seconds, all energy is transferred from Engines to Weapons. +50 weapon power, engines disabled. 1 minute 30 seconds cooldown.

Engineering Bortasqu: Augmented Reactive Plating. Passively adds +30 all damage resistance. Also adds 25% to the magnitude of any damage resistance abilities (Brace For Impact, Auxiliary to Structural, Polarize Hull, Attack Pattern Delta, etc) used on your ship.

Science Bortasqu: Subspace Snare is fine, though it could do with a shorter cooldown or a longer period of disabling on the target.

Full set bonuses:
+1.0 turn rate (becomes 9.0, same as Negh'var)
+10 starship energy and projectile weapons skills
+20 starship warp core potential skill
-5% all energy damage to shields


Worth 50$?
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