Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,489
# 101
12-10-2012, 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
@adamkafei

hmmm... I think there is only one piece of advice to give you. Make peace with the fact Fed cruisers just aren't designed to do what you really want to do and go fly cruisers on the KDF side. You NEVER hear them complain about their cruisers (well, except for the lack of new ones... but they almost universally adore their battlecruisers old and new, and there's something to be said for Cryptic not dumping new cash cows on them so often.... ).

From everything I've heard a KDF battlecruiser is just what most of the Fed cruiser captains would really prefer to fly anyway.
Biggest differences between a KDF battlecruiser and a Federation cruiser:
1.) Negh'var turns 9 deg/sec, Vor'cha turns 10. It doesn't seem like a big thing until you realize that's a 30% improvement over Federation cruisers. It shows.
2.) KDF runs Plasmonic Leech console. Some people have gone so far as to call this the "KDF tax". Leech is a minimum of +5 to all power levels... As much as +15 if you're really serious about your Flow Caps skill.

I run two battlecruisers. On the KDF side, it's a Mirror Vor'cha (I prefer the extra science on the mirror variant, for extra survivability). Between my skills, the ship's basic power bonuses, Honor Guard set bonus, and the plasmonic leech, I'm running 125 power to weapons and over 60 to everything else even before I start using Emergency Power abiliies. There is simply no comparison to what that ship can do, and what its direct equivalent the Star Cruiser can do. It can maneuver, it can fight, it can survive. The star cruiser does not do anything that the Vor'cha doesn't do better. The significantly better handling is built in, and KDF's hardware is just plain superior when it comes to boosting your ship's power levels. More power = more performance, period.

If cruisers in general did what a fully tricked out Vor'cha can do, then they'd be just fine. Make Fed cruisers turn 9 or 10 deg/second and give them another 5 to 10 power in all areas and THEN we'll start having meaningful conversations about how Federation cruisers are performing.

You could argue that the Federation prioritizes survivability over firepower... But that isn't borne out in any meaningful way in the game. If a KDF cruiser can't survive an engagement, there's no way in hell a Federation cruiser will either.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,086
# 102
12-10-2012, 07:12 AM
the turnrate difference is really sucking the fun out of fed cruisers from time to time for me. (+ the inertia)
I was soooo happy when i finally bought the oddy pack and had my tac cruiser with saucer sepperation. So much better...really don't mind the less HP.
No cruiser should have less than 8 turn rate...a carrier like the vo'quf or the atrox maybe, but not even those.
Go pro or go home
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 103
12-10-2012, 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
the turnrate difference is really sucking the fun out of fed cruisers from time to time for me. (+ the inertia)
I was soooo happy when i finally bought the oddy pack and had my tac cruiser with saucer sepperation. So much better...really don't mind the less HP.
No cruiser should have less than 8 turn rate...a carrier like the vo'quf or the atrox maybe, but not even those.
The only shame here is that the Odyssey (any of them) is now officially out-classed by the fleet Excel. Which I call BS on, but that's just me. You get everything the oddy has (other than versatility), you get more HP, more tactical consoles, and a much better inertia.

Overall, a muuuuch better ship. -.- Was kinda pissed when it came out, I saw it's stats, and realized this sad little fact. It can tank better, deal damage better, and move around better. The last one is to be expected, as is the second one (not so much though), but that first one really pissed me off.

So the Odyssey of all ships... is now somewhat obsolete. Imagine that XD...
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,714
# 104
12-10-2012, 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post

So the Odyssey of all ships... is now somewhat obsolete. Imagine that XD...
Well... we kinda know Cryptic has a special fetish for the Excelsior. Somehow it seems to always be slightly ahead of more modern ships. Also, was anyone not expecting Cryptic to keep milking cruiser pilots? Escort-wise they already have the Bug to milk players with every now and then, but for cruisers they seem to prefer slight upgrades in existing models (Regent, Fleet Excelsior). Just today I got the Regent for its torpedo, it'll be a welcome addition to both my Cruiser Engi and my all torp Sci, but the ship itself is surprisingly well designed. If you double up on the StB and technician doffs you can get a LOT of mileage from the 4 tac powers it has. That said, I know the fleet Sovy, and Fleet Excel are better... not to mention whenever Cryptic releases the paid version of the Breen ship it'll probably outclass them all.

Really, the way to go is find what ship you like best and get it, be it lockbox or fleet level while accepting that it will be outclassed by a new release sooner rather than later.

Last edited by skyranger1414; 12-10-2012 at 06:11 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 105
12-10-2012, 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
The only shame here is that the Odyssey (any of them) is now officially out-classed by the fleet Excel. Which I call BS on, but that's just me. You get everything the oddy has (other than versatility), you get more HP, more tactical consoles, and a much better inertia.

Overall, a muuuuch better ship. -.- Was kinda pissed when it came out, I saw it's stats, and realized this sad little fact. It can tank better, deal damage better, and move around better. The last one is to be expected, as is the second one (not so much though), but that first one really pissed me off.

So the Odyssey of all ships... is now somewhat obsolete. Imagine that XD...
Just to add insult to injury on that but it was already obsolete.

By the Tholian ships when it came to best heal boat.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 106
12-10-2012, 11:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
Well... we kinda know Cryptic has a special fetish for the Excelsior. Somehow it seems to always be slightly ahead of more modern ships. Also, was anyone not expecting Cryptic to keep milking cruiser pilots? Escort-wise they already have the Bug to milk players with every now and then, but for cruisers they seem to prefer slight upgrades in existing models (Regent, Fleet Excelsior). Just today I got the Regent for its torpedo, it'll be a welcome addition to both my Cruiser Engi and my all torp Sci, but the ship itself is surprisingly well designed. If you double up on the StB and technician doffs you can get a LOT of mileage from the 4 tac powers it has. That said, I know the fleet Sovy, and Fleet Excel are better... not to mention whenever Cryptic releases the paid version of the Breen ship it'll probably outclass them all.

Really, the way to go is find what ship you like best and get it, be it lockbox or fleet level while accepting that it will be outclassed by a new release sooner rather than later.
I am was fully aware of this when I got the Odyssey 3 pack. But I wasn't expecting it to be out-done so soon, or so thoroughly. ESPECIALLY by the Excelsior. You know what really irks me? The Excelsior is tankier than an Odyssey. It has a better turn rate, and more firepower. WITH NO LOSS TO ITSELF. The Odyssey can become faster and more maneuverable than an Excelsior, but to do it, it must sacrifice 1 console slot, 10% hull, 15% shields, 10 Shield and 10 Aux power.

But again, I knew the Oddy would be out-classed soon enough. But I was counting on the Imperial (or Fleet AC to any readers who don't know this ship) to be the one to do it, not the Excelsior. And when you compare the Imperial to the Fleet Excelsior? There is no comparison again. The Excelsior is better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Just to add insult to injury on that but it was already obsolete
If we are talking about the Odyssey, then I beg to differ, it was still the top cruiser before the Fleet Excelsior came out. But if we are referring to the Excelsior (more specifically the part where that bloody ship is over 200 years old), then yes, I agree.

Top of the line ship... made obsolete... by an already obsolete design...

Bleh...
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,902
# 107
12-11-2012, 02:07 AM
Come on, does it really matter in the 25th century what shape a ship is? If we assume the FExcelsior is a complete retrofit (which it is), then we can deduce that all of its systems have been brought up to date. That includes warp core, weapons, shields, impulse, computer, sensors etc. What possible advantage would a nice curvy aerodynamic futuristic looking design (e.g., Odyssey or Chimera) have over a TOS-style one (Excelsior), if the internal systems are all equivalent technology?

By extension there is no reason why the federation haven't just used a standardized design for the past 300 years. The only thing needed is the dual nacelle system to maintain a warp field, and the occasional up-scaling if that is required.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,714
# 108
12-11-2012, 05:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeybacon90 View Post
Come on, does it really matter in the 25th century what shape a ship is?
By that reasoning we'd see a T5 Fleet Connie next (blergh!)

Kidding aside, it does matter to those who prefer the newer ship models. I have similar issue with the BUG, that an enemy NPC ship is so ridiculously OP (basically it gets free turning... lots of it) is incredibly annoying to me and more or less emblematic of the poor way Cryptic handles balance issues.

The sheer speed with which the Ody was replaced as top cruiser is very troublesome. But I wonder... does Cryptic see it that way? Remember they live by and balance ships by a spreadsheet method. Perhaps in their mind the Ody is at least equal to the Excell for some obscure feature we as players dismiss out of hand?

Last edited by skyranger1414; 12-11-2012 at 05:54 AM.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,902
# 109
12-11-2012, 06:49 AM
I don't think there is any favouritism of the Excelsior. It is just the way things have progressed.

Think about it, the Excelsior as the Adv Heavy Cruiser makes sense. A ship placed between the Connie and Galaxy, which is not the Cheyenne class (standard Heavy cruiser). There wasn't really any other canon ship they could have picked aside from the Ambassador.

Next we have the Retrofit Adv Heavy Cruiser, released as an Excelsior (as opposed to say a Heavy Cruiser Retrofit in the form of the Cheyenne) presumably just so that VA players can take advantage of the transwarp.

Finally we come to the fleet version. We already had a Fleet Galaxy, Cheyenne, Oddy and Star Cruiser. Fleet Assault Refit was already planned, hence all that was left was a fleet Excelsior. Would people (particularly Oddy owners) be as annoyed if instead of a Fleet Excelsior, we got say a Fleet Star Cruiser Refit with some wacky 25th century design inspired by the Regent, and exactly the same layout and stats?

tl;dr, dont be hating on Excelsior. There will always be a place for the Oddy too.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 466
# 110
12-11-2012, 07:18 AM
The Odyssey is still a superior tank and superior all around cruiser compared to the excelsior, regardless of the version. Yes, the Excelsior is superior in firepower and hull total (4 tac slots and 900 more hull, really?). But in everything else, the Odyssey still comes out on top.

In fact, the Excelsior is outmatched by the Fleet Regent.

No redundant Ensign eng slot
+5 more power to weapons
LT universal boff slot

The only things the Excelsior has on the Regent is the 1 turn rate, and somewhat better inertia, both of which are not really an issue.

Same Hull
Same console slots
Same LTC Tactical
Same Shield Mod

So really, the Excelsior falls under the Regent in tactical power, under the Odyssey in tanking and all around abilities, and to top it all off. She's uglier then sin itself. So basically, an in between red headed step child that's in the Tier 3 ship yard and easier to get than the other two.

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