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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,032
# 21
12-10-2012, 08:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
Hence why I place the Kobyashi Maru between my ship and the Klingons to take the majority of the fire while the crew are beamed over... The mission is to save the crew, the ship itself is expendable...
You know... If you beam over the crew, then get blown up, you didn save them did you

Quote:
Originally Posted by kobayashlmaru View Post
The '09 representation of the test totally changed my perspective on the Kobayashi Maru test to one of great disappointment. There is no way any of those cadets can take the third attempt at winning seriously, not even the professors grading Kirk.
Do what most of the rest of us did: Realize that JJ-Abrams has zero clue about star trek.
My name may say "PWE member", but I will never be.
-NEVER Forget the Screwups and ignorance made towards the people who supported the game through 2011
Don't look silly, don't call it "Zen-Store" - Don't waste devs time, Post proper bug-reports
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,464
# 22
12-10-2012, 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anazonda View Post
You know... If you beam over the crew, then get blown up, you didn save them did you
Why would my ship get blown up Starships can take at least a few hits un-shielded without immediately exploding, and by placing the Kobyashi Maru between my ship and the Klingons, they wouldn't be able to get in so many clear shots...

With regards the test itself, I think every cadet going into the simulator knows they're going into a simulator for a test. Knowing it's an unwinnable scenario isn't going to stop someone taking the simulation any less seriously, much like how someone will continue to retry levels on video games even after they get beaten over and over, and there's definitely something to be said for getting caught up in the heat of the moment, as in Wrath of Khan, rather than in JJ Trek which was impossible to forget that it was a simulator thus impossible to truly take seriously...
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 281
# 23
12-11-2012, 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
Why would my ship get blown up Starships can take at least a few hits un-shielded without immediately exploding, and by placing the Kobyashi Maru between my ship and the Klingons, they wouldn't be able to get in so many clear shots...

With regards the test itself, I think every cadet going into the simulator knows they're going into a simulator for a test. Knowing it's an unwinnable scenario isn't going to stop someone taking the simulation any less seriously, much like how someone will continue to retry levels on video games even after they get beaten over and over, and there's definitely something to be said for getting caught up in the heat of the moment, as in Wrath of Khan, rather than in JJ Trek which was impossible to forget that it was a simulator thus impossible to truly take seriously...
According to Star Trek (The movies/TV shows) not STO, a single photon torpedo is more than enough to toast any unshielded vessel. (Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, Generations) The original 1701 Enterprise, the unnamed frieghter Kruge destroyed, and the Enterprise D were all destroyed in this same manner. Lack of shields means lack of emergency, atmospheric, dampers. Any measurable hull breach would then crush the vessel in seconds, as all the oxygen evacuated into space. Also in the simulation, the Klingons attack from multiple vectors, rendering your strategy futile.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 466
# 24
12-11-2012, 12:01 PM
Just what a little internet searching can do on a subject.

Chekov evacuates his ship and then crashes it into the three Klingon cruisers, destroying all four ships in the process and (inadvertently) all of the evacuees as well.

Sulu realizes it is probably a trap and refuses to cross the Neutral Zone.

Scott bypasses the Klingon shields with an unorthodox technical trick that could only work within the simulation's physics model, and not in reality. Although he is initially successful, the Enterprise is eventually overwhelmed by a continual stream of Klingon reinforcements. Scott is then reassigned from the command track to engineering, which was his intention all along.

Kirk reprograms the simulated Klingons to be afraid of "The Captain Kirk," arguing that he expected to build a comparable reputation.

Nog is also mentioned to have solved the scenario in two entirely different (and thoroughly Ferengi) manners.

The test is not to see how they face life and death. It is to test what happens when they are put under extreme stress, the decisions they must face, and how they will act in those circumstances.

Take Sulu for example. His exam probably stopped the moment he decided not to enter the Neutral Zone. Did he fail? No, there is no failing, he averted an entire war at the loss of a single ship.

[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent

Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,464
# 25
12-11-2012, 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkilczewski View Post
According to Star Trek (The movies/TV shows) not STO, a single photon torpedo is more than enough to toast any unshielded vessel. (Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, Generations) The original 1701 Enterprise, the unnamed frieghter Kruge destroyed, and the Enterprise D were all destroyed in this same manner. Lack of shields means lack of emergency, atmospheric, dampers. Any measurable hull breach would then crush the vessel in seconds, as all the oxygen evacuated into space. Also in the simulation, the Klingons attack from multiple vectors, rendering your strategy futile.
The Enterprise-D was not destroyed by a SINGLE photon torpedo. It was hit by SEVERAL torpedoes, which caused a warp core breach... Now, I'm not saying that hits don't cause damage, they do, but they don't cause IMMEDIATE DESTRUCTION...

Futile? The entire test is futile if one goes into it thinking that they are going to somehow be able to 'beat the test' like Kirk. That's the entire point... The point is not to pass the test, but to take the test...

Just to point something else though, while the Klingons are moving, my ship would also be moving, thus minimizing the target presented... I'm not saying that that would actually work, I'm just saying that's how I would take the test... I don't actually care if it would succeed or not, because that's not the point of the test at all, but I would have to engage in the test in some way, or that would be an immediate striking from any future Command path training, if not outright Academy expulsion...
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 466
# 26
12-11-2012, 02:20 PM
Think about this though.

You have entered the Neutral Zone when you were not authorized to do so.

The Klingons entered the Neutral Zone to protect their borders.

A fight ensues.

Just say for a moment that you rescued the Kobayashi Maru's crew, killed the Klingon aggressors, and warped out.

You saved 170 people from certain death at the hands of the Klingons.

You have killed 300+ Klingons in the fight.

You just sparked an interstellar war with the Klingons that could claim the lives of billions on each side.

That is the point of the test, to see what you will do in the face of the circumstances. Not whether or not you can beat the Klingons in a stand up fight.

[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent

Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.

Last edited by daiouvegeta2; 12-11-2012 at 02:22 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,464
# 27
12-11-2012, 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daiouvegeta2 View Post
Think about this though.

You have entered the Neutral Zone when you were not authorized to do so.

The Klingons entered the Neutral Zone to protect their borders.

A fight ensues.

Just say for a moment that you rescued the Kobayashi Maru's crew, killed the Klingon aggressors, and warped out.

You saved 170 people from certain death at the hands of the Klingons.

You have killed 300+ Klingons in the fight.

You just sparked an interstellar war with the Klingons that could claim the lives of billions on each side.

That is the point of the test, to see what you will do in the face of the circumstances. Not whether or not you can beat the Klingons in a stand up fight.
Precisely
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 28
12-11-2012, 04:02 PM
"Open hailing frequencies

Good afternoon Captain I am (insert name rank and ship) Who do I have the honour of addressing?"

(wait for reply)

"Do you require assistance with your rescue of these civilians ? I am aware of the efficiency of Klingon vessels but we are standing by to assist should you require it "

Pause for effect/reply

Lay it on with a trowel
mention honour
Your respect for them for going out of their way to rescue defenceless civilians
Mention that you will report this in detail to command so that their renown spreads

Remembering that Klingons are very proud (and Noble) This would work
And its LOGICAL
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 29
12-11-2012, 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkilczewski View Post
According to Star Trek (The movies/TV shows) not STO, a single photon torpedo is more than enough to toast any unshielded vessel. (Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, Generations) The original 1701 Enterprise, the unnamed frieghter Kruge destroyed, and the Enterprise D were all destroyed in this same manner. Lack of shields means lack of emergency, atmospheric, dampers. Any measurable hull breach would then crush the vessel in seconds, as all the oxygen evacuated into space. Also in the simulation, the Klingons attack from multiple vectors, rendering your strategy futile.
That's pretty much incorrect. There are a number of situations where an unshielded hull breach did not result in the immediate destruction of the vessel (the Defiant comes to mind, even though it was destroyed in the end, it was not due to that). The original Enterprise was destroyed by auto-destruct, although it was crippled with decent torpedo shots. Note that the Enterprise, in the second movie, sustained at LEAST one torpedo strike with minimal or no shields. The Enterprise-A, in fact, sustained a very severe torpedo strike causing a hull breach straight THROUGH the saucer when the shields had collapsed. And a freighter is not going to have the armor or redundancy of a ship built for deep space exploration and possible warfare.

That said, in TNG it WAS stated that a single torp could blow up the Enterprise if fired too close to the ship (I believe it was the episode where the Pakleds were involved).

However, as the Enterprise-D sustained several torpedo strikes during its final battle, it's not exactly consistent. While the Enterprise-D was ultimately destroyed, Geordi seemed pretty convinced that it was the final strike that actually caused the damage that led to the warp core destabilizing and ultimately breaching.

Last edited by red01999; 12-11-2012 at 06:09 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 30
12-12-2012, 02:33 AM
Hint for those discussing torpedo hits to an unshielded ship

It depends on the mass of the ship
the location of the hit
AND the state of the SIF

Example a torpedo hitting a runabout midship will totally destroy it
A torpedo hitting voyager in the stern will merely cause damage
A Torpedo hitting the warp core or nacelles will Destroy the ship

And a torpedo hitting the Enterprise e in hydroponics won't even slow the ship down
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