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Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 368
Hello all,

I'm a returning member of STO. I stopped playing several months ago, and you might have known me before as ACEMAN97. I had a couple of questions regarding the Fleet Ships you can acquire and some of the things regarding the specifications on those ships.

First of all, let me say I'm really happy to see this new mechanic of retrofitting all classes of ships and making them accessible via the fleet system. My favorite ship is the T2 Science Vessel, but it was kind of disheartening to move past Lieutenant Commander rank and have the ship be more or less "obsolete." The ability to acquire a viable Vice Admiral level Nova is the main thing behind reinvigorating my spirit in this game.

Anyway, I went on the wiki to read more about the acquisition and specifications of these fleet ships (I feel like Scotty in the 24th Century ). Looks pretty good. The "Fleet" variants are better than the standards, which is understandable for money-making purposes. But the thing that surprised me was what seems a considerable difference in performance.

Now, I can't say I know everything about this game. I left for what seems like forever and my knowledge of everything now is probably terrible. It just seems, at a stat glance, the Science Vessel Retrofit and the other ships are not exactly "on par." There is even a noticeable difference between it and the Commander-level ship Retrofit.

So, help me out here. Is there a big difference? If so, why? What exactly is the point of these fleet retrofits other than the sake of new content? I thought it was to bring diversity in fleet....well, FLEETS. I've wanted for such a long time to have a fleet action of 15+ ships, all different. An Odyssey, a Galaxy, a few Akiras in there....without sacrificing actual performance, still capturing the diversity and everything. They even did a good job of slightly altering each ship's role via different BOFF slots and Consoles instead of reskinning everything.

Sorry for the long post, anyway. Just help me out a little?
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 407
# 2
12-09-2012, 10:38 AM
There is the Science Vessel, Science Vessel Refit, Science Vessel Retrofit, and Fleet Science Vessel Retrofit. Which ships are you asking about, and what exactly is your question?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,041
# 3
12-09-2012, 02:09 PM
short answer: any of those lower lvl ships brought up to fleet levels are not as good as lvl40-50 ships brought to fleet lvl
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 368
# 4
12-10-2012, 05:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thepantsparty View Post
There is the Science Vessel, Science Vessel Refit, Science Vessel Retrofit, and Fleet Science Vessel Retrofit. Which ships are you asking about, and what exactly is your question?
I just noticed they recently added a retrofit of the Science Vessel for Vice Admiral level (and a corresponding Fleet variant). My questions are

Why is there (statistically) a discernable difference between, say, the Fleet Science vessel Retrofit, and the Fleet Deep Space Science Vessel. I ask this question

1) Because they are both VA level ships

2) Because they both cost the exact same thing

3) 1 and 2 lead me to assume the real reason they are there is for cosmetic diversity, meaning one shouldn't be "better" than the other, they should both be pretty much the same, perhaps with some differences to increase role diversity, but otherwise left up to cosmetic preference, right?

IN A NUTSHELL, why are they different?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ferdzso0 View Post
short answer: any of those lower lvl ships brought up to fleet levels are not as good as lvl40-50 ships brought to fleet lvl
Okay...so I wasn't wrong to notice the difference by just glancing at the stats.

So now what I don't understand is why there is a difference between them. The same goes for the lower lever regular retrofit ships. If the levels are all Vice Admiral and the primary purpose of them is for diversity (I'm guessing) why aren't they all more or less balanced with each other. Again, the difference between regular variants and fleet variants is understandable (because the fleet variants basically cost ZEN vs. the regular no ZEN) but why wouldn't you make the Regulars balanced with each other and Fleets balanced with each other?

And at this point, I'm going to make a bold suggestion: If you want to keep them different, at least make the lower level ones cost a little bit less. I mean, you are getting less, aren't you?

OR

Get them as closed to equal as possible without hurting their different roles and perks.

Last edited by kiloace; 12-10-2012 at 05:23 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 939
# 5
12-10-2012, 06:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferdzso0 View Post
short answer: any of those lower lvl ships brought up to fleet levels are not as good as lvl40-50 ships brought to fleet lvl
It's really a shame.
The Somraw, K'tinga, D'Kyr, D7, Kumari, and T'Varo are all older than the Constitution Refit and yet they are tier 5. The rule needs to change.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,039
# 6
12-10-2012, 07:15 AM
It doesn't make much sense, since nobody would want to grind and pay for the lower Tier Fleet ships unless they really, really liked the design.

It just limits their own sales.

"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 368
# 7
12-10-2012, 08:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cidstorm View Post
It's really a shame.
Looked at your tag. What? Went on the wiki to confirm. WHAT?!

Its gotta be a mistake - they probably forgot.

In any case, they should definitely make the fleet variants equal with each other and the standards equal with each other. How much better the fleet variant is than the regular is up to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkjeff View Post
It doesn't make much sense, since nobody would want to grind and pay for the lower Tier Fleet ships unless they really, really liked the design.

It just limits their own sales.
And we now have a legit reason other than it'd be nice of them.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 407
# 8
12-10-2012, 12:06 PM
The Fleet Science Vessel Retrofit does have something which few other sci ships have - a Lt. Com. tactical slot. The other ships that have that are those with universal Lt. Com. slots, the Wells, Vesta, and Orb Weaver, and it's less expensive than those ships. Does its increased offensive options make up for its lower hull and shields compared to a Fleet Deep Space Science Vessel? That's an open question.

The non-fleet Science Vessel Retrofit, however, just sucks. It doesn't get the Lt. Com. tactical slot and uses the same layout as the Recon Science Vessel while having less hull and shields for no apparent reason.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 368
# 9
12-10-2012, 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thepantsparty View Post
The Fleet Science Vessel Retrofit does have something which few other sci ships have - a Lt. Com. tactical slot. The other ships that have that are those with universal Lt. Com. slots, the Wells, Vesta, and Orb Weaver, and it's less expensive than those ships. Does its increased offensive options make up for its lower hull and shields compared to a Fleet Deep Space Science Vessel? That's an open question.
You do have a very good point. I noticed that Lt. Cmdr. Tac slot on it. I'll answer the open question with a very open opinion - I don't think it does. Some of the Lt. Cmdr. Boff abilities (Engineering ones especially) are very powerful, but I don't think that extra option offsets the difference. It already has less crew and less hull strength...I don't think the two are worth the same, which disheartens me.

Now the shield, I actually held onto that for this last part. The shields modifier is an abyssmal 1.01, which is a very big deal. The 1.3 shield modifier is a big deal with Science ships - a core ability. It should never dip below that 1.3. The other fleet variants have things like 1.35 and even up to 1.43. So, I do believe the Science Retrofit and its fleet variant are underpowered right now.

Quote:
The non-fleet Science Vessel Retrofit, however, just sucks. It doesn't get the Lt. Com. tactical slot and uses the same layout as the Recon Science Vessel while having less hull and shields for no apparent reason.
Yeah, really....just buff it to a near-reskin, please.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 152
# 10
12-10-2012, 02:07 PM
The non-fleet upgrades are indeed wasted resources, the fleet retrofits are definitly not. Looking at their stats they may have lower shield mods, but all T2 and T3 fleet upgrades get additional shield capacity outside of their shield mod. The only real difference is natural shield regeneration (which depends on shield mods), but capacity is comparable to T5 fleet upgrades.

Example: My Fleet Nova with Maco MKXII and without Field Generators actually has a slightly higher capacity than my Fleet Nebula. T5 fleet upgrades will have higher capacity as soon as you start to add Field Generators, since again T2 and T3 have lower basic mods.

Hull values aren't an issue at all and you can't compare a Nova's hull and a Deep Space Science Vessel. The Fleet Science Vessel Retrofit is basically a Recon variant and with this it is on par. The Fleet Research Science Vessel could best be described as a D'Kyr fleet version without the questionable pet and with an awesome turn rate.

I can't say anything about the Fleet Escort Retrofit, but I can assure you that the Fleet Science, Fleet Research Science and Fleet Heavy Cruiser are all excellent ships, even for premade PvP. Same goes for the KDF ships.
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decker999
Join Date: Aug 2010
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